Not paying for a job

[TripleD]

Don't have a pop at me pal. You're here for advice. If you don't like what you hear then don't ask.

Bye

Sorry, I'm not having a pop at you, please don't take it like that. I was trying to explain that I don't want to pay for anything because as it sits at the moment I will have to spend out more money on buying the tiles again to redo the wall.
If I pay his materials and not his labour fine, but then I'm out of pocket for his bad workmanship.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Sorry, I'm not having a pop at you, please don't take it like that. I was trying to explain that I don't want to pay for anything because as it sits at the moment I will have to spend out more money on buying the tiles again to redo the wall.
If I pay his materials and not his labour fine, but then I'm out of pocket for his bad workmanship.

What's the so called plumber saying?

 

[TripleD]

What's the so called plumber saying?

that's just it, he's saying nothing except:
1) Wanting to be paid for Materials
2) Wanting to be let back again to sort the problems.

If I don't do 1), he's threatened small claims court, if I allow 2) then he'll hold off on the small claims court.

Apart from that there has been nothing else.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

So it's your choice, if you're not happy & you can find someone else to do the work (I wouldn't) negotiate with him his fee less whoever agrees to fix it.

Or, let him try again

Or DIY

Or court. If you genuinely feel you've got a case to dispute then go to court.

I don't seen any other options

what town are you in?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Are his previous "return visits" to fix problems documented? (emails, texts etc?)

You are entitled to have a proper and workmanlike job done. You are not obliged to pay for a shoddy job.

If there are problems, he is entitled to the opportunity to correct them. However, he isn't entitled to endless re-tries. Whats reasonable depends on the nature of the job, but probably two or at most three attempts would be the max. Final decision would be up to the court.

However, if you don't pay him for materials that he has supplied, then he is entitled to have them back. Once they are fixed, he cannot simply un-fix them - he would have to go to court to claim them, but they are his property, not yours. The same does not apply to consumables - if he consumes consumables in the course of doing an unsatisfactory job, thats tough on him.

The point that Rocket was making was pertinent. The photos look like they are of quite an old installation. Has this dispute been going on for a long time?

 

[jonnyswamp]

I don't like slagging people off, but that's **** poor work
That flexi looks like a 1/2" x 15mm comp, with the parralel thread of the comp end being used as 1/2" MI
From what you've shown, I doubt I would pay either
If the tiles are loose as well, it would be better to strip it all out and start again

 

[TripleD]

So it's your choice, if you're not happy & you can find someone else to do the work (I wouldn't) negotiate with him his fee less whoever agrees to fix it.

Or, let him try again

Or DIY

Or court. If you genuinely feel you've got a case to dispute then go to court.

I don't seen any other options

what town are you in?

I'm in Ipswich.

So you would suggest letting them come back, detailing out an issues list and letting them try again?
They have been back 6 times already to try and fix the leak, and each time more silicone is being used, and the job is getting more messy. You have seen the amount of Silicone and silicone residue on the shower screen. I asked for this to be cleaned as he has removed the shower screen multiple times to reseal it.

DIY isn't an option, I know my limits and plumbing a strong one.

Court, well if I have to, but would rather not.

I'm thinking another person to fix the issues. Then minus the cost of replacements/fixing from the bill, then paying him the balance.

 

[TripleD]

The point that Rocket was making was pertinent. The photos look like they are of quite an old installation. Has this dispute been going on for a long time?

Work started on the 7th December this year the last visit was on the 21st December when the second leak started.
I'm worried your thinking/seeing these as used or old parts, everything is brand new.

 

[jonnyswamp]

What sort of bath tap/shower mixer have you got, looks like some sort mixing valve mounted on the bath, if that's the case then that is what could be leaking when shower is being run and not the silicon joint
That's just speculation as you haven't posted a pic of the bath tap etc

 

[TripleD]

What sort of bath tap/shower mixer have you got, looks like some sort mixing valve mounted on the bath, if that's the case then that is what could be leaking when shower is being run and not the silicon joint
That's just speculation as you haven't posted a pic of the bath tap etc

Yes, sorry, I have an Aqualisa Quartz Digital with Bath filler. So there are no taps it comes out of the overflow to fill the bath with a processing unit in the loft and a diverter to control the switch between bath fill and shower.
Leak I believe is not silicone related but more to do with the cracked grout and wobbling tiles. Although I was told that your should always fill a bath before using silicone to see the bath to the tiles. This was not done.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Id do a list in writing of what you what fixed/cleaned etc.

Then he knows exactly what you're not happy with in writing

Tell him he's got 1 last chance to sort the list out. Tell him you're not paying if anything leaks or the list isn't complete. You're being reasonable there.

If he doesn't agree tell him you're see him in court & then close verbal contact.

As for another person to rectify, he'll need to agree.

How much does he want for materials? Maybe pay that if reasonable & with a list from him. Then it's a labour dispute.

What's he saying about the bent flexi? There's no excuse for that.

You need to decide if you think he's serious about court.

Most decent people know if they've done a good job or not. Maybe he's bluffing, who knows. Maybe tell him you think court is the best option??

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Yes, sorry, I have an Aqualisa Quartz Digital with Bath filler. So there are no taps it comes out of the overflow to fill the bath with a processing unit in the loft and a diverter to control the switch between bath fill and shower.
Leak I believe is not silicone related but more to do with the cracked grout and wobbling tiles. Although I was told that your should always fill a bath before using silicone to see the bath to the tiles. This was not done.

If the leak is from cracked grout/wobbly tiles it should be a simple fix. Cut silicone out, cut offending grout out, remove wobbly tiles, remove tile adhesive, pva offending area, re tile, return to regroup & silicone, get paid & never call him again.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

* re grout not regroup although this does seem like a battle!

 

[joni os]

Small cracks can suck a seemingly disproportionate amount of water, its called capillary action. What is the background for the tiles, as this may be the starting point for rectification. Shower screen should not be sealed internally as water entering between glass and frame needs exit path.

 

[TripleD]

Small cracks can suck a seemingly disproportionate amount of water, its called capillary action. What is the background for the tiles, as this may be the starting point for rectification. Shower screen should not be sealed internally as water entering between glass and frame needs exit path.

Shower screen according to fitter should always be sealed inside and outside, when I asked the manufacturer as fitter suggested this was the cause of the leak, they said exactly the same, so he returned, removed and refitted screen. Trouble is each removal and refitting of the screen now amounts to about 4 times, and each time the silicone residue is building up and now making it look a mess.

 

[SimonG]

No idea.



Ok, point taken. Like the facebook quote



I think the £1400 represents that I'm not happy with the work.

Pictures and video's uploading soon then....

Oh its poor.

 

[SimonG]

If the leak is from cracked grout/wobbly tiles it should be a simple fix. Cut silicone out, cut offending grout out, remove wobbly tiles, remove tile adhesive, pva offending area, re tile, return to regroup & silicone, get paid & never call him again.

Not pva, never pva.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

That's what I was taught! Plasterer mate, superb tiler

 

[TripleD]

Not pva, never pva.

That's what I was taught! Plasterer mate, superb tiler

Walls are hemp board (Compressed straw between 2 sheets of paper) if that makes any difference?

 

[lame plumber]

awful plumbing, kinked flexi, which will burst idc.

silicone everywhere, an utter mess, no need for that at all

pay any material costs and make him sling his hook. He cant remove goods, criminal damage let him go to court, you can use another plumber to do the work and let a judge decide if further costs due, have a chat with citizens advice.

 

[joni os]

The hemp board is responsible for cracks in tiling as it is unstable background. PVA good for dry areas but breaks down in wet conditions. Only come across hemp board once and that was Shotley is that where you are.

 

[jonnyswamp]

The amount of water showing on that video suggests to me that it's leaking pipe work from diverter valve to shower head outlet, either way he's had enough chances to rectify, get someone else

 

[TripleD]

The hemp board is responsible for cracks in tiling as it is unstable background. PVA good for dry areas but breaks down in wet conditions. Only come across hemp board once and that was Shotley is that where you are.

No, I'm in Ipswich but same side of the town as Shotley. Any suggestions? Rebuild the wall with stud work? or could you leave the wall in place and plaster board over then tile to that?

The amount of water showing on that video suggests to me that it's leaking pipe work from diverter valve to shower head outlet, either way he's had enough chances to rectify, get someone else

That was our first thought, but the water in the video, the really bad waterfall is on the back wall and there is no water pipe there.
Divertor is in the loft with two copper pipes coming out. one you can see ending with a joint that attaches to the bath fill. The other existing through a tile into the shower pipe/head. This I suppose could be leaking if the cracked grout is not the cause.

 

[joni os]

Some plumbers can tile, some tilers can plumb. This is a case of the inexperienced meeting the unexpected. With modern powershowers even plaster can not be relied on. Do not waste money trying to make good existing. Rip out and start again. What you pay is between you and the plumber but as other have said even plumbing is defective. As a minimum, fix 13mm tilebacker board to wall prior to tiling. Screw to studs, not hemp.

 

[TripleD]

Some plumbers can tile, some tilers can plumb. This is a case of the inexperienced meeting the unexpected. With modern powershowers even plaster can not be relied on. Do not waste money trying to make good existing. Rip out and start again. What you pay is between you and the plumber but as other have said even plumbing is defective. As a minimum, fix 13mm tilebacker board to wall prior to tiling. Screw to studs, not hemp.

The Hemp board doesn't have studs to screw to, so are you saying a wall replacement is better?