Not paying for a job

[oz-plumber]

As for the solicitor, I could but it's all additional cost on my side to do that. Ideally he responds accepting the situation, and the agreement is made. I need to tread carefully after 10 days, but checking with the CAB it's best to make an agreement outside of solicitors.

It may be peace of mind for you to have your agreement checked over by a solicitor.

You cannot make an agreement with someone, if that agreement is outside the realms of the Law.
If the Plumber has had your agreement check over by a solicitor, and his solicitor deems it to be outside the Law, you could end up in deep and expensive trouble.

The Law doesn't care about your situation - it only cares about the Law.
If you breach the Law - then the Law will come after you.

I was told that by an ex-judge whom I was working for.

 

[joni os]

You already have an agreement/contract with the original fitter. What you are seeking is to conclude that agreement by "mutual consent". Having set on record the defects all future correspondence towards settlement should be headed, "WITHOUT PREJUDICE". Be aware that an offer made, without prejudice, if accepted becomes binding.

 

[TripleD]

As there has been no response and no communication to date, I doubt I will get anything in writing accepting the terms. This is why I stated

"We will give you 10 working days from the date of this letter to dispute this offer. Should we not received a formal response to our letters we will take this that you have accepted this offer and the matter will not be taken any further."

Which I'm hoping allows us to finally get this mess sorted! Otherwise with no responses it could drag on for months worth of uncertainty.

 

[Radioman]

What it would come down to is who breached contract first, you for withholding payment or the plumber for not fulfilling the work he was contracted to do. Docs titled Without Prejudice cannot be used as evidence in legal proceedings, nothing to do with contract law. See http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Without+Prejudice. What you are looking at is a Tort. See http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=2137

You have given your contractor 10 days to reply. Hopefully you worded the letter in such a way that failure to reply within the period would signal agreement? Hopefully you sent it recorded delivery? And you discharged his services in writing stating the reasons? I agree with Oz, spend £100 max and get a lawyer to give it the once over.

 

[TripleD]

It wasn't sent recorded as his house is 5 minutes walk from mine, so was hand delivered.
Noted about lawyer once over.
It is worded that if there is no response that it would signal acceptance to the offer, and the matter is finalized.

I do find it strange that after the threat of taking me to small claims court, I have heard no more from him.

 

[Radioman]

Unfortunately You have no physical proof that he has received it only your word that it was put through the door. I am not at all surprised at his lack of response. We have had court cases where the debtor has not turned up to defend his case. What I would do is wait out the 10 days, then on day 11 send him a letter, recorded delivery, stating that in accordance with your offer dated xx copy included, his lack of response means that he accepts your offer in Full and Final Settlement, and you will now proceed to engage contractors to carry out rectification.
My guess is that he is glad to was his hands of it. In my opinion he's got off lightly as similar cases have actually bankrupted self employed trades with no liability insurance. I take it he had no insurance? If he had you could have claimed the job plus damages.
Next time make sure you get trades with insurance and if in doubt there is always https://www.suffolk.gov.uk/communit...-consumers/what-is-the-suffolk-trader-scheme/

 

[TripleD]

Unfortunately You have no physical proof that he has received it only your word that it was put through the door. I am not at all surprised at his lack of response. We have had court cases where the debtor has not turned up to defend his case. What I would do is wait out the 10 days, then on day 11 send him a letter, recorded delivery, stating that in accordance with your offer dated xx copy included, his lack of response means that he accepts your offer in Full and Final Settlement, and you will now proceed to engage contractors to carry out rectification.
My guess is that he is glad to was his hands of it. In my opinion he's got off lightly as similar cases have actually bankrupted self employed trades with no liability insurance. I take it he had no insurance? If he had you could have claimed the job plus damages.
Next time make sure you get trades with insurance and if in doubt there is always https://www.suffolk.gov.uk/communit...-consumers/what-is-the-suffolk-trader-scheme/

Much appreciated, I will follow up as you suggested with Recorded delivery, makes sense.
As for insurance, I've not seen anything, he's not responded at the request, I would assume not.

 

[Radioman]

Next time, next time!

 

[joni os]

Sending first class post with proof of posting will suffice. Court will assume letter delivered in normal postal times, and signature not required.
This is not Tort it is contract law. Without prejudice is a device by which parties can negotiate a settlement without compromising their position should the case go to court. For example:- an offer of £*** without prejudice, will be ignored, whereas the same offer in open correspondence could be seen as an admission.

 

[Radioman]

Not what you originally said, but never mind. A Tort is the action by which you claim damages in a civil action. The damage may be physical, mental or financial, to person or property. Typically recompense for the damage done to this persons property by this tradesmen.

 

[joni os]

Contact Law includes a duty of care, and also a duty to warn, " Lindenberg - Canning 1992".
Negligence in this case is less clear if neither party was aware of the stramit.

 

[Ray Stafford]

I would do is wait out the 10 days, then on day 11 send him a letter, recorded delivery, stating that in accordance with your offer dated xx copy included, his lack of response means that he accepts your offer in Full and Final Settlement,

That won't stand up Radioman. Felthouse vs Bindley, 1862.

 

[newcastle phill]

That won't stand up Radioman. Felthouse vs Bindley, 1862.

A man of many talents mr stafford.
A repository of useful information

 

[Riley]

Wow Ray, a legal calling has been missed

 

[newcastle phill]

Sales reps know every trick in the book lol

More knowlege than a barrister.
More tricks than a used car salesman.
And when things get nasty 'get to the chopper'

 

[Ray Stafford]

Contact Law includes a duty of care, and also a duty to warn, " Lindenberg - Canning 1992".
Negligence in this case is less clear if neither party was aware of the stramit.

Useful case, thanks joni os

 

[Best]

I don't think if photographic evidence of the work together with evidence of repeat attempts of repairs plus all contact letters and lack of response from the installer was all put in front of a small claims court county judge, there would be any chance of having to pay the installer.
Judge would only rule the materials that are useable should be paid for.
All labour completed must be paid for by law, but not if workmanship very shoddy.
I wouldn't worry in the slightest if I was the OP. Just be careful to gather evidence and show in all correspondence that you are trying your best to be fair and reasonable and resolve it.
You don't need a solicitor if you are a sensible person and behave in a decent way, but you could stay with free advice or small fee from solicitors where you can get it.
I should add that it would be advisable to have expert witnesses if it goes to court, - qualified plumber, tiler, builder, etc. Really shoddy looking work will be obvious to a judge, but some alleged bad workmanship may not be accepted by the customers word only, unless a person qualified in that job can give expert opinion of what exactly is wrong.

 

[stevetheplumber]

thanks for updating please let us the final outcome

 

[Phil]

I don't have time to read all this again but I think the plumber has just written off the money you owe him, from his point of view he's probably happy to get you off his back.

 

[WaterTight]

He's out for £3k in silicone.

 

[tommy1712]

Where exactly is it leaking from surely you must be able to find it

 

[Dan]

Don't mind me while I reply to a few of the threads. We need the new thread pages to be picked up correctly. If this thread isn't current, just visit the plumbing forum and post your own new thread or checkout the other existing threads.