oil boiler cycling

[peteheat]

Hi Craig,

Earlier you described your home, many call such properties "Money Pits" yet they love living in them and see each little job as the major step forward that it very often can be.

Well it's time to look on your heating system in a similar way, I suggest that you look at the system and begin upgrading in manageable steps, you need:

An up to date efficient boiler, (though not really the answer when your system is not efficient).

Possibly an upgrade to a well insulated hot water cylinder that may need to be bigger to meet the needs of your family.

I would start with heating zones and controls, depending on the house layout say upstairs, downstairs and hot water.

TRV's on the radiators to give you some control over the room temperatures.

Earlier I asked you what was calling for the heat to cause your boiler to cycle, from what you tell us it appears to be the cylinder;

Get a few quotes for the installation of proper heating controls, you can break up that job in two parts, zones and trv's.

Next step can be either the cylinder or the boiler whichever is the greatest need.

Maybe upgrade the radiators if needed.

No money is being wasted, each step brings you nearer to a decent efficient system.

 

[frpcraig]

Thanks very much SJB6 and peteheat.
You both seem to be suggesting similar solutions and I am extremely pleased with the advice.
I have contacted the engineer and hopefully he can fit a tank stat and zone valve later next week.
That really is all I can afford at the moment.
Whilst I save up I'll keep tackling the jobs I can do. there are still loads of drafts to sort, the front door is like a wind tunnel etc........
SJB6's description of my system seems to be spot on.
2 tanks in the loft, a vent pipe etc...
The hw tank was installed yonks before I moved in and the bathroom walls built around it. It has no insulation whatsoever . I can reach in the cupboard and cover the top with towels but until I rip the wall down that's all I can do with that.
I wonder how much heat I am losing from an unlagged tank heating water I don't really need??
At the minute I will have to cope with the boiler inefficiency.
Whilst old it does chuck some heat out of the rads no problem now I've stopped fiddling with it. I think my cruddy old house ( never mind the unlagged tank) loses the heat rather than the boiler not providing enough if that makes sense??
If a cylinder stat/zone valve stops the cycling I will be over the moon.
I've timed it and once up to temp the on times are about the same as the off times, so about 1.5 litres an hour by my dodgy maths. Thats nearly a pound an hour!
Anyway thanks again.
Cheers
Craig

 

[SJB6]

Thanks for the recognition.

You've done the right thing by getting your engineer out, as informed as you seem only a compitent engineer who's experienced these things 100's of times should touch them.

The stat will prevent the cycling, how much less fuel the boiler uses you'll have to check yourself over a few weeks. You can go and buy a water jacket for your cylinder which will provide some insulation, there not amazing but even if you only save pence thats better than nothing.

Like peteheat said upgrades as and when you can will help as well but without wanting to alarm you when a new boiler is installed or an old one replaced current building regulations must be met and from the age of your system I'm willing to bet the oil tank and oil supply will need replacing as well as the rest of the system (which we've already pointed out)

Also like you said a poorly insulated house is not going to help regardless of how efficient systems are.

Good luck.

 

[frpcraig]

Thanks SJB6/peteheat.
I will follow your advice.
Your help has been excellent and has pointed me in the right course of action.
Some of the other posts from people were less than helpfull tbh.
I will let you know about if the cycling issue and the fuel useage.
Many thanks
Craig

 

[SimonG]

Thanks SJB6/peteheat.
I will follow your advice.
Your help has been excellent and has pointed me in the right course of action.
Some of the other posts from people were less than helpfull tbh.
I will let you know about if the cycling issue and the fuel useage.
Many thanks
Craig

Those would be the ones telling you to stop tinkering with the boiler before you killed yourself or your family?

 

[frpcraig]

Aaahhh SimonG, I see you didn't get the thinly veiled suggestion I have made?
I am very grateful to peteheat and SJB6 for their reasoned suggestions.
Not only do I understand my system better and how to go forward I now know what my limitations are on my heating system with regard to my personal skills.
I seriously think I could carry out the work needed but peteheat and SBJ6 have persuaded my otherwise.
I don't know your reason for being on this forum SimonG but if it is to persuade people to get professional help rather than 'tinker' you really are going about it the wrong way.
Cheers
Craig

 

[SimonG]

Aaahhh SimonG, I see you didn't get the thinly veiled suggestion I have made?
I am very grateful to peteheat and SJB6 for their reasoned suggestions.
Not only do I understand my system better and how to go forward I now know what my limitations are on my heating system with regard to my personal skills.
I seriously think I could carry out the work needed but peteheat and SBJ6 have persuaded my otherwise.
I don't know your reason for being on this forum SimonG but if it is to persuade people to get professional help rather than 'tinker' you really are going about it the wrong way.
Cheers
Craig

Craig, Craig, Craig, you crack me up, you really do. I just hope your engineering skills are better than your comedy skills.

It's a simple statement.

'People who are not competent to work on things, shouldn't'

Do you need it in smaller words?

 

[lame plumber]

sometimes if people dont hear or read what they want to hear or read they call us unhelpful. Sorry we cant always help but I find its normally a case of people just not listening to sensible advice

 

[Bunker]

I wonder how much heat I am losing from an unlagged tank heating water I don't really need??

Alot is the simple answer, a huge amount. Wrap an old duvet round and over it or buy a cylinder jacket from a merchant, ebay, screwfix etc.

 

[frpcraig]

Thanks Bunker, I've managed to wrap a single duvet round it which should help a bit till I knock the wall down!!

 

[SJB6]

Just take into consideration potential fire risk!

 

[frpcraig]

Will do SJB6.
There are no electrics of any description on the tank.
There are about 2 foot below the tank so will make sure all is out of the way duvet wise!!
I think the best I can do at the minute is bust the wall down and get an insulated tank in at the same time the dude does the zone valve and tankstat.
I can't see any point getting a tank stat fiitted with no insulation...........?

 

[SJB6]

The tank stat will prevent the cycling (better known to me as short cycling). As it stands, say your programmer is timed from 6am to 8am for hot water, the water is up to temperature by 6.30-6.45, that means until 8am the boiler is just cycling through boiler stat, it has no thermostatic control. The stat will effectively mean your not burning that excess fuel you would of been for that hour or so, any insulation on the cylinder will further reduce heat loss.

 

[Bunker]

that means until 8am the boiler is just cycling through boiler stat.

And perhaps heating your f&e tank in the loft

 

[frpcraig]

Hi SBJ6.
Getting the zone valve and tankstat fitted later next week.
I 'think' i know what you mean.
Do you mean the heat from the tank to the tankstat will stay stay hotter (than the boiler) and refuse to switch the boiler on............. (no cycling)
rather than the rapid heat loss from the actuall boiler water (and stat) (cycling)
Thanks
Craig

 

[Lou]

I am updating threads. If this is not current then please visit the Oil & Solid Fuel Forum and post a new thread.