Position of boiler flue in relation to velux window, advice pleas

[Riley]

Agreed however we still don’t have official confirmation that the flue is dangerous

 

[Debra Beagle]

Hi, we’ve nearly got an answer to this problem and will update as soon as verified, however just a question for you all.......if able to reach the flue how many of you would work on the boiler if the velux window was permanently fixed?

 

[Brambles]

I don’t think that the regulations GS(IU)R differentiate whether or not the window can be opened. The flue terminal must be a minimum distance away from the window.

 

[Aire]

I don’t think that the regulations GS(IU)R differentiate whether or not the window can be opened. The flue terminal must be a minimum distance away from the window.

I always believed it to be an openable window where the minimum measurement applied

 

[Brambles]

Craig,

You are indeed correct.

I need to do more reading!!

 

[Scott_D]

I always believed it to be an openable window where the minimum measurement applied

I dont think thats correct
What if someone gets the window changed to an opening window?
I think someone died beacuse of similar and a gas fitter went to prison

 

[Aire]

I dont think thats correct
What if someone gets the window changed to an opening window?
I think someone dies beacuse of similar and a gas fitter went to prion

If someone gets the window changed then it's up to whoever changes the window to seek professional advise to make sure what they are doing is safe.

 

[Scott_D]

If someone gets the window changed then it's up to whoever changes the window to seek professional advise to make sure what they are doing is safe.

But if the homeowner and window fitter are not gas safe and dont see the potential problem

 

[Aire]

But if the homeowner and window fitter are not gas safe and dont see the potential problem

But ignorance of the homeowner/windowfitter is not the engineers fault. Regs regarding flue positions relates to openings, a solid window with no trickle vents is not classed as an opening. Saying the homeowner may change the window to openable in the future is no different to saying the homeowner may put a conservatory there in future.

 

[Scott_D]

But ignorance of the homeowner/windowfitter is not the engineers fault. Regs regarding flue positions relates to openings, a solid window with no trickle vents is not classed as an opening. Saying the homeowner may change the window to openable in the future is no different to saying the homeowner may put a conservatory there in future.

And how many conservatories do you see encroaching on flues or with opening windows too close
I was always told an opening means opening in the fabric of the building not an opening window

 

[Sharp Point]

And how many conservatories do you see encroaching on flues or with opening windows too close
I was always told an opening means opening in the fabric of the building not an opening window

Scott, what do you think an opening window is?
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I dont think thats correct
What if someone gets the window changed to an opening window?
I think someone died beacuse of similar and a gas fitter went to prison

That’s like saying the flue is near a plain brick wall, but in the future someone puts a door in.

 

[Scott_D]

Scott, what do you think an opening window is?
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That’s like saying the flue is near a plain brick wall, but in the future someone puts a door in.

That would involve building control who should flag it up

 

[Sharp Point]

That would involve building control who should flag it up

And how many people actually inform BC of intentional work?
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My take on an opening into the fabric into the building is exactly as it says.... a passage from external into internal airspace, whether that’s into habitual rooms or not.

 

[Aire]

Seems we are both right, to clarify I looked through part J of the building regs, it does state than an opening is referred to as, e.g. openable window, air bricks, vents etc. But it also states that no flue outlet shall be positioned within 150mm of an opening in the fabric of the building e.g a window frame. So 300mm for openable window, and 150mm for a fixed window.

 

[Scott_D]

Seems we are both right, to clarify I looked through part J of the building regs, it does state than an opening is referred to as an opening, e.g. openable window, air bricks, vents etc. But it also states that no flue outlet shall be positioned within 150mm of an opening in the fabric of the building e.g a window frame. So 300mm for openable window, and 150mm for a fixed window.

Good to get some clarification

 

[Aire]

I would say though that the 150mm rule to openings in the fabric are more down to structual factors instead of flue gasses.

 

[firemant]

Precisely WHEN was the boiler fitted? The 300mm rule has been around for around 15 years, but someone could confirm the date. If the boiler is less than, say, 10 years, the problem IS yours. Having said that, it is an offence for a builder to carry out work that makes a gas installation unsafe. They should have approached you before starting the work. I would be writing to the builder by recorded delivery, and sending a copy by email to prove that you have tried to start discussions. I would also RIDDOR the builder, but am not sure if a member of public can. Finally write to the HSE, with the pictures and diagram of clearances required. Bear in mind that this could all result in you having to move the flue, but I get the feeling that you know that. Ultimately, a compromise may be sought.

Is the house occupied - what do the tenants or owners say?
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Can’t Edit ? I now notice that you have previously mentioned neighbours

What is the boiler make and model.
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[Debra Beagle]

Precisely WHEN was the boiler fitted? The 300mm rule has been around for around 15 years, but someone could confirm the date. If the boiler is less than, say, 10 years, the problem IS yours. Having said that, it is an offence for a builder to carry out work that makes a gas installation unsafe. They should have approached you before starting the work. I would be writing to the builder by recorded delivery, and sending a copy by email to prove that you have tried to start discussions. I would also RIDDOR the builder, but am not sure if a member of public can. Finally write to the HSE, with the pictures and diagram of clearances required. Bear in mind that this could all result in you having to move the flue, but I get the feeling that you know that. Ultimately, a compromise may be sought.

Is the house occupied - what do the tenants or owners say?
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Can’t Edit ? I now notice that you have previously mentioned neighbours

What is the boiler make and model.
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Sorry for my ignorance but why is the problem ours?

 

[Debra Beagle]

So guys, how many of you would work on the boiler if the window was screwed shut?

This is something that I received from a gentleman that works for Gas Safe.

 

[Sharp Point]

So guys, how many of you would work on the boiler if the window was screwed shut?
View attachment 40032
This is something that I received from a gentleman that works for Gas Safe.

I interpret that as altering the premises that could make THE gas appliance unsafe and not the premise.
And with all due respect Debra, I can’t helieve that you’re still consuming yourself with this, do yourself a big favour and just get a vertical flue installed..... draw a line underneath and get on with your life. Tomorrow’s another day.

 

[Chuck]

Deleted - I was just repeating what I said in a previous post.

A mod should lock this thread, it's become a bit of a waste of time.

 

[Debra Beagle]

Chuck,
Just for your information concerning your previous deleted statement, our flue does not terminate over their boundary , our flue was fitted in accordance to gas safe regulations and approved by the boiler suppliers at the time of installation. it is the builder that has situated an opening roof window going against building regs planning portal part j.
Also the summary of regulation 8 shown above is states that it is against regulations to alter a building in which a gas installed which could compromise gas safety

 

[Chuck]

Just for your information concerning your previous deleted statement, our flue does not terminate over their boundary , our flue was fitted in accordance to gas safe regulations and approved by the boiler suppliers at the time of installation...

Just for your information, none of this is relevant to your actual problem, which is with a piece of tort law called "Land Trespass". Briefly, if your fumes from your flue cross the boundary and interfere with your neighbour's enjoyment of their property then you are at fault unless you have something called an easement permitting your activity, which is unlikely.

You've already admitted you're causing a nuisance by warning your neighbour (see your previous posts) that your fumes maybe entering their property and causing a hazard. At some point, probably when they have difficulty selling their house because of your flue, you are going to get sued. At that point you are going to really regret not spending the few hundred quid it will cost you now to have your flue modified. You may think that plumbers are expensive but that's only because you haven't seen what a barrister charges to tell you you have got no case and need to settle.

I've seen how a very similar case played out in practice. It did not end well for the person in your position, who was just as sure as you that they were in the right.

My advice is to stop getting legal advice from gas fitters and builders and find yourself a lawyer who knows about land trespass and tort.

 

[Brambles]

Debora

These issues are never clear cut. In my view the risk you have hanging over your head, is if your boiler and the new window combine in a series of events that results in someone being poisoned by CO.

In those circumstances, you are at risk of of either being held liable in full, or more likely in “parasitic secondary liability”i.e. you knew about it, but did nothing to eliminate or mittigate the potential danger.

The evidence that you knew about the issue is already in the public domain.

The cost of resolving the issue with your boiler, is probably about the same as seeking the advice of a solicitor.

If you want to recover your costs, give your neighbour an ultimatum to fix the problem. If they don’t, then undertake the work, seek to recover the cost, if they don’t pay, then go to the Small Claims Court to recover your cost as a debt.

You are very lucky that you have a situation, where the solution is completely within your hands to resolve. English Court’s generally are very unpredictable in outcome (and costly) when it comes to resolving neighbourly disputes.

Life is not always fair, you have the moral high ground, don’t loose that position

 

[Sharp Point]

Also the summary of regulation 8 shown above is states that it is against regulations to alter a building in which a gas installed which could compromise gas safety

Debra, you’ve interpreted regulation totally wrong. It’s stating altering the premise/ building in which a gas fitting is housed, to not compromise the fittings safety.