Signing work off?

[Derek Hardman]

I know lots of GSR guys who have signed work off in the past, myself included, for a few years now I have always told people who request signing off that we would have to re-install the appliance in order to sign it off, I just read something that might explain why I do this, signing work off is illegal according to gas Safe, therein lies a question (which would be linked to the recent petition), if signing off is illegal, then surely commissioning a non commissioned appliance amounts to the same thing, that is how I would read it, I know some idiots would ignore it anyway, but wouldnt it be good if GSR engineers in general agreed not to sign off or commission appliances after the installation if it is not their own.
What are your thoughts guys and gals!

 

[Masood]

I won't do it. I'm not prepared to take the risk that someone made mistakes that I would inherit responsibility for. I'm paranoid enough about making mistakes myself - I double-check my work all the time, there's no way I could not double-check the work of someone I didn't know and trust!

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

You know you have to go over it to check everything is as it should be - practically re-install. Then you could "sign it off with confidence" -
question is how much would you want to charge £600? What are they expecting to pay? £60?

We have never done it!

 

[Derek Hardman]

What about commissioning Masood?

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

I won't do it. I'm not prepared to take the risk that someone made mistakes that I would inherit responsibility for. I'm paranoid enough about making mistakes myself - I double-check my work all the time, there's no way I could not double-check the work of someone I didn't know and trust!

The whole part of sighning it off means you check they havnt made any mistakes. so if a customer of yours had the gas disconnected and you had to go in after and re commission the appliances - you wouldnt do it?

 

[Derek Hardman]

The whole part of sighning it off means you check they havnt made any mistakes. so if a customer of yours had the gas disconnected and you had to go in after and re commission the appliances - you wouldnt do it?

I meant the original commissioning when the boiler is installed, in that instance No, not anymore, I will turn it off and tell the customer to get the original fitter back to commission, and tell them that if they wont return, to contact GSR.

 

[Toxic Ted]

If i dont install it, then i wont commission or sign it off for anyone.....end of

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

i dont see its any less safe to commission a new appliance over an old one. You have to use your judgement and knowledge to make sure its operating safely

 

[Derek Hardman]

The point is, customers will eventually get to realise that they should get a GSR engineer in first time, and engineers will start to realise that they must commission properly as most of us do.

 

[rab250]

Re-commissioning and signing off are 2 different things in my head.
Signing off is legalising an install, putting your name to it.
If a g/s engineer signs off illegal installs then he is a fool not only to himself but to the industry as a whole.
re-commissioning is making sure the installation will operate in a safe manner.
its like when landlords get a new boiler fitted (illegally) and get a gs record carried out. Your the last man on the job

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

what if the first guy is gsr but his company wont let him sign off other 'weekend' jobs

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

whats an illegal install? the act of you signing it off makes it legal, assuming you do the final gas connection

 

[Derek Hardman]

If by weekend job, you mean a foreigner,
then he is working out of scope, so still shouldnt be done

 

[rab250]

what if the first guy is gsr but his company wont let him sign off other 'weekend' jobs

Then he shouldn't be doing it because he is not gas safe registered in his own right.

 

[Derek Hardman]

I asked for opinions, and received some, gasmanxxxR1, you are obviously happy to do this, I am not, and whilst there is a difference in opinion, there are grey areas and danger, hence the need to have the legislation made more clear.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

I asked for opinions, and received some, gasmanxxxR1, you are obviously happy to do this, I am not, and whilst there is a difference in opinion, there are grey areas and danger, hence the need to have the legislation made more clear.

I totally agree with you, i actually dont sign off others work, ive got enough of my own. I just wanted to put the other side of the argument. Dont need to be gsr to drill some holes, use brown wall plugs, core out flues etc

 

[Reza]

We are dealing with a situation that has been left to fester for a long time, only bold measures will bring it back in line with what should be a standard today. A boiler with no commissioning record is classed as non-commissioned and as such the relevant unsafe procedure should apply. This will bring those loopholes in the private rented sector into a dead-end. If a boiler has been installed through legal means, then GSR must hold records on it, one phone call to GSR and they can confirm it. If there's no record and no commissioning document, turn it off and badge it.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

We are dealing with a situation that has been left to fester for a long time, only bold measures will bring it back in line with what should be a standard today. A boiler with no commissioning record is classed as non-commissioned and as such the relevant unsafe procedure should apply. This will bring those loopholes in the private rented sector into a dead-end. If a boiler has been installed through legal means, then GSR must hold records on it, one phone call to GSR and they can confirm it. If there's no record and no commissioning document, turn it off and badge it.

But couldnt you use your knowledge and skill to check the appliance is working safely and leave the custard with heating and hot water?

 

[Reza]

Yes but I won't be doing the industry a favour, which is why I say bold measures are needed to rectify a lot that's wrong in our industry.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

what bold measures would you like to see

 

[Reza]

Our proposal was submitted to GSR, they agreed there were interesting points, but out of their remit. I'd like to see Gas Safety regulations enforced. No grey areas, I don't want to legalise a work that an illegal fitter had done, by checking it and ticking it for the sake of customer having heat and hot water. If I did, I would never get rid of illegal fitters.

 

[Reza]

I would like to see RIDDORs addressed, I would like to see simplifying the unsafe situation to either NCS or Dangerous. AR is a get out claw and it serves no purpose. I would like to see sales of Gas appliances to become licensed, an much more.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

i like the gas applices to be licensed, think that should be done

 

[Reza]

I know of a Landlord who uses a handyman to do all his work and I mean all his work. He has 70 properties and he never has any of his appliances fitted by professionals. As you know, a Landlord with a Gas Safety record is not in breach of any laws. Where can we go with this! If you don't shut off his boiler what else will stop this!

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

have to take each case on its merits, i defo wouldnt do land lords any favours, hate em with a passion