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multiple choice give you a chance to guess but they are actually good way of testing knowledge. people cannot guess all the answers right and over 40/50 questions it gives a true reflection of knowledge
 
fuzzy said:
multiple choice give you a chance to guess but they are actually good way of testing knowledge. people cannot guess all the answers right and over 40/50 questions it gives a true reflection of knowledge
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Fuzzy

I am surprised you think of multiple choice questions as a good way of assessing knowledge - if I wanted to know your knowledge I would probably choose to observe you performing in a situated activity, to assess your knowledge.

However, if I wished to know about your understanding of a particular type of knowledge such as that which may be communicated in language, then I would ask you questions that relate to your performance in order to gain a better understanding of what you know, that relates to your performance in the context of the job.

But testing knowledge which may be communicated (codified or propositional knowledge) can be done through verbal, written or multiple choice question routes. The latter multiple choice question route is highly suspect, and has been questioned through educational literature (psychology related journals) for some time. The arguments against multi-choice is that they fail to test comprehension, problem-solving, analytical skill, and understanding (arguably, one can't really understand something in theory, that has not been experienced in reality). The knowledge that multi-choice does test, is memory, which amount to over 80% of the questions in many cases. Therefore the knowledge that can be tested is usually furnished with isolated facts (e.g. at which temperature is water at maximum denisty) and not difficult concepts.

It is not impossible to test for comprehension, problem-solving and analytical skills through multi-choice, but difficult concepts, lead to complicated questions, where the meaning of the question becomes misunderstood.

In addition there is evidence of multiple choice questions leading to flawed types of teaching, where what is tested, is most taught, but arguably the Gola system claims to have responded to this problem.

I would argue that multi-choice is down to convenience and the simplistic sales of education and training products.
 
theres no denying that multi choice is convenient but at lower levels of education i think it is a suitable measurement of knowledge. i also agree on the understanding bit as multi choice gives no opportunity to explain but good questioning from an on line bank of questions should go some way to covering this.

you say you would want to witness me but that may only test skills, many skillful DIY people out there who can bend and fit pipe very well. But i have seen myself how these people come unstuck when having to think for theirselves.

new qualifications have units which are either knowledge (multi choice), skills (practical) or combined (both). Most units in the new schemes are combined, ie you will not gain the unit unles you satisfy criteria in both. For trades i think this is suitable balance of assessment. In psychology or other academic subjects this may not be the case
 
fuzzy said:
theres no denying that multi choice is convenient but at lower levels of education i think it is a suitable measurement of knowledge. i also agree on the understanding bit as multi choice gives no opportunity to explain but good questioning from an on line bank of questions should go some way to covering this.

you say you would want to witness me but that may only test skills, many skillful DIY people out there who can bend and fit pipe very well. But i have seen myself how these people come unstuck when having to think for theirselves.

new qualifications have units which are either knowledge (multi choice), skills (practical) or combined (both). Most units in the new schemes are combined, ie you will not gain the unit unles you satisfy criteria in both. For trades i think this is suitable balance of assessment. In psychology or other academic subjects this may not be the case
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Fuzzy, what you say makes sense and it is the way it is. I am also sorry for the 'psychology' reference, which was a bit misleading - what I meant was that, if you wish to read more on multiple choice questions, then this subject matter is located in 'psychology' journals, which can be searched on google scholar. When we talk of 'cognitive' skills, this is associated with the mind and psychology - multiple choice questions claim to test cognitive skills, which might be made up of comprehension, analytical, problem solving skills - they are in the mind, hence psychological.

However observing performance does not only test skills, it tests 'skilled behaviour' (competence). I can observe your work process knowledge (what comes first, second, third), I can observe your knowledge of systems, and practical skill and I can infer competence through your demonstration of know-how to produce a product that is fit for purpose, and meets an occupational standard - I can do this without saying a word to you. I can also observe attitudinal aspects of competence such as workmanship, attention to detail, customer relations, peer relations, environmental awareness, abilities to co-ordinate and organise, to check and work safely.

As for the DIY analogy, this is good, and prompts the assertion that assessing for competence requires sustained observations in multiple contexts, and relationships if we are really talking about qualifications testing 'occupational competence'. This is often not the case.

With the new qualifications I would like to know more, if possible. Regarding the combined units, is this a practical assessment with 'verbal' knowledge testing in situation? or do the candidates do the performance practical, and then combine the knowledge unit they have already achieved through classroom activities. The combination units are a mystery to me.
 
I answered all the questions in the Certification Skills Health and Safety teaching manual that comes with a test CD, but because of the number of people at the re-training centre I had all pages photocopied and did the whole lot and got about about half a dozen wrong in total.

I had to do so many hours training which I would re-phrase as doing loads of tests from the book or from the CD.

I passed the test at a mobile centre and received my basic CSCS card sometime later.
 
I had an interview for a plumbing course which included a 100 multiple choice question maths test and was given a calculator.

There was three questions on area and it gave the formula Pi/r/squared;

1. The area of a rectangle, which at the time I did not know how to do with pen and paper, always been bad at maths, but it's easy on a calculator. Answer was one of those given.

2. The area of a circle, but did not understand the formula (at that time). The diameter was 1m (I think) so allowing for corners you loose about a quater if it was 1m square to 1m diameter circle. 2 answers way too low and 2 were 7000 odd square cm's, 10,000 in 1 square metre. So took a guess.

3. Add both areas together, but the answer I had did not match any of the answers available, I knew the rectangle was correct but wasn't sure of the circle, so changed it for the other one and added them together. This matched one of the possible answers.

The interviewer had to pop out for a bit and I did not know he had the answers in his file and did not sneak a look.
He checked them when came back and said I had got all 100 correct and asked if I had looked, "No".

If I had to think for myself I would have got 2 wrong and if I didn't have a calculator it would have been all three.
There were other questions where I was able to use logic or a calculator to answer, and should not haved scored as highly.
 
Hi
I am going for week1 and 2 in April and was wondering if you could tell me what sort of things to expect...thanks.
 
I had a salesman from T4T skills (Steve Torbini) around my house last week, he definitely sells it well, but after looking around on this thread and others there is no chance i'm going to sign up for the course. Thanks for sharing your're experiences, sounds like it's saved me and many others from getting ripped off.
 
im doing my first 2 week commencing 6th feb im so excited i cant wait i will keep u updated with facilities
 
Hi All,
I am trying to book practicals but getting told that i need to pass a Health & Safety test (online) that became a live requirement on / around 25th November.
There are a few peeps on the electricians forum that like me are struggling to pass. Have anyone on the plumbers course had an issue?
Thanks, Andy
 
andyplumber2009 said:
Hi All,
I am trying to book practicals but getting told that i need to pass a Health & Safety test (online) that became a live requirement on / around 25th November.
There are a few peeps on the electricians forum that like me are struggling to pass. Have anyone on the plumbers course had an issue?
Thanks, Andy
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The H&S test is the biggest crock of rubbish T4Ts have produced to date. The 'test' from what I can see is pretty impossible as it is poorly worded, grammatically incorrect & contain severely ambiguous answers. When you fail it,you do not get told by how many nor which questions you got wrong. Fail it four times & they send you a paper version, I submitted mine today so we will have to wait & see if it is any better!
 
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Just bumping this to bring all contributors to the attention of all the threads we have on our forums about Train 4 Trade Skills.

There have been A LOT of people who feel they have been missold courses by Train 4 Trade Skills. Many taking legal action.

Please see this for electrical course threads on our sparky forum: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=t..._cp.r_qf.&fp=37fc7606ff53045&biw=1500&bih=958
This for plumbing course threads on our plumbing forum: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=t..._cp.r_qf.&fp=37fc7606ff53045&biw=1500&bih=958
 
Am i right in saying that you cant actually get your NVQ2 through them though and its just your technical certificate you gain when you pass their course? Do you not have to arrange your on-site assessments yourself to gain your full NVQ2?
 
Am i right in saying though that you dont actually gain your full NVQ2 through T4TS? Do you not have to arrange your on-site assessments yourself to gain that?
 

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