The reason I don't use flexis...

[AWheating]

flexis are for diying wanabee plumbers, and copper is for dinosaurs who cant programe the bloomin vcr. Plastic is no good cus the tat man wont give you money for it.

im going back to lead

 

[Guest123]

AW seeing as you're going back to lead, can you show the kiddies what a ball joint looks like! LOL

Personally I'm going back to Roman aqauducts.

 

[AWheating]

Personally I'm going back to Roman aqauducts.

i already bathe in the cut, after world war 3 we will all be drinking from the cut too.

 

[Dannypipe]

We seem to do this subject every few months!!

I use flexi's. I use them a lot more than I did five years ago. If you go back to when I first started plumbing 15 years ago, (I'm only 33) I never used them or plastic pipe. Dad wouldn't allow it!

They have there place. They save time, they're (obviously) flexible so can save a lot of ball ache, and there are situations where you simply have to use them. (back to the wall pans for instance, where you can't see any of the plumbing when it's second fixed.

I haven't had one burst on me as yet. I'm sure the day will come. I've also been called to random leaks on 20 year old copper installations. Nothing is perfect. When I uprated my house to an unvented cylinder, it blew a 30 year old copper endfeed elbow off. I checked pipe and fitting. Both tinned with solder, it was just time for the fitting to go....that's life.

 

[Guest123]

But Danny, your end feed lasted 30 years before giving up the ghost. Do you seriously think that a flexi would last as long. Would you as a professional use them on a unvented cylinder?

I embrace new technology, I try it out and make my own opinion about it. Having used flexis in quite a few applications and seen some that have been installed by plumbers, and their failure rates, I just do not have confidence in them. If you and anyone else uses them and rates them highly, then that's fine, I do not have a problem with that, everyone does things to a method that they are happy with.

 

[kirkgas]

i fancy a shot of doing a ball joint again (just to see if i can still do it) now wheres the shavehook and drift?

 

[Dannypipe]

But Danny, your end feed lasted 30 years before giving up the ghost. Do you seriously think that a flexi would last as long. Would you as a professional use them on a unvented cylinder?

I embrace new technology, I try it out and make my own opinion about it. Having used flexis in quite a few applications and seen some that have been installed by plumbers, and their failure rates, I just do not have confidence in them. If you and anyone else uses them and rates them highly, then that's fine, I do not have a problem with that, everyone does things to a method that they are happy with.

No I wouldn't dream of using a flexi on an unvented cylinder. Though there was a manufacturer (STELFLOW) who until recently supplied there unvented cylinder with one for the connection to the expansion vessel. They only stopped using it because the smaller bore caused noise issues. I will add, I always replaced the flexi hose with copper tube.

A flexi hose lasting 30 years? Unlikely in my opinion. So from that point you have got me hook line and sinker!!

 

[Guest123]

i fancy a shot of doing a ball joint again (just to see if i can still do it) now wheres the shavehook and drift?

Still got my moleskin cloth.

 

[julesverne]

I got to page 4 before i needed to add my bit so apologies if my post is repeating anybody elses post

The quandry is this no matter what anyone says copper will outlast anything plastic or rubber/flexi, thats not opinion its fact. the problem is work and life are not straight forward. in an ideal world we could all use the best materials and take our time to do the best job. but today we have so many people competing for jobs it is so tough and we are forced to use materials that will enable us to do a job at a price a customer is willing to pay. if your not one of those plumbers you truly are lucky and i guess you have will been on the tools for a long time with a very established customer base, i'm 5 years self employed. but sometimes against my own better judgement , we do have to use materials that do get the job done faster and it's not because we want to its because we have to.

when it comes down to paying the mortgage and feeding mouths i'm sorry but that comes first before choosing copper or plastic or flexi's even though i would rather use copper. i'd rather not use plastic and flexi's but on some jobs you just have too and it's down to economics and my pride does take second place to me paying the mortgage.

i do rarely use flexis as they are tat but sometimes only a flexi will get you out of a hole on friday night at 6.30.

that's life sometimes you gotta do what ya gotta do.

the bit about connecting cookers with flexis that is class it did make me laugh

 

[Gray0689]

System3: i know where ur all comin from, but i just dont trust fibre washers... sooo many times ive come across a copper tap connector with a broken fibre washer, or LS-X, or mastic all over it, or its been cross threaded...
a great example to use a flexi is when u have to replace an old tap with a new one and the new tap has a longer thread than the old, so you have the option of cutting the copper back and putting a new valve(which so often isnt there) on and a flexi because there isnt space to solder a copper pipe on with out burning the wall or the bath.
and often, the pipe has already been bent to suit the old so ur already struggling to find a long enough lenght of copper that you can connect to.

Claire I'm with you and I guess I'm one off the old school as they say but we have to evolve I love copper but copper itself is becoming crap quality Tin like drop a bit on floor it don't sound like copper anymore
So I like the newer stuff multilayered
Do a lot of underfloor heating guess I'm silly for using plastic pipe for this guess it should be copper also lmao

 

[kay-jay]

i use flexis on a semi regular basis. if you use a wras approved product it should carry a minimum 10 year warranty - if installed correctly and fails within that time it becomes the manufacturers problem imo

 

[WaterTight]

the point about copper becoming crap quality is a good one. it's paper thin these days and probably more easily distorted microscopically shortening the lifespan of installations.

 

[GQuigley67]

i find copper ripples all the time now when bending if your not careful, personally i will use anything i obviously prefer hard metal pipework like copper and stainless for durability, but ive got a job coming up where customer wants plastic so i will fit plastic upstairs but not downstairs because of mice, and i regulary use flexis in bathroom installs, makes life easier for me if anything bursts then its down to manufacturer not me

 

[kirkgas]

Still got my moleskin cloth.

never used moleskin, just used folded up newspaper with a smear of flux, seemed to work ok

 

[Guest123]

A burst flexi might end up being covered by a manufacturers warranty, but I'd much prefer not to have to rely on this in the first place after a flexi bursts and destroys someone's home.

Some copper is almost like thinwall tube, especially the cheap imported stuff. I have a supply of good copper that doesn't ripple in a machine, however all 22mm copper I've used in the last few years ripples with a bending spring.

Even if copper is thinner/not as good quality, it will still outlast a rubber hose many times over.

 

[Guest123]

never used moleskin, just used folded up newspaper with a smear of flux, seemed to work ok

I used to use a welders glove coated in flux and as I was wearing it while wiping the joint, I had better control of the solder.

Last one I did was a lead slate piece for copper expansion pipes going through the roof. Now I just lead burn the copper pipes to the lead or use a plastic Ubink.

 

[Gray0689]

But Danny, your end feed lasted 30 years before giving up the ghost. Do you seriously think that a flexi would last as long. Would you as a professional use them on a unvented cylinder?

I embrace new technology, I try it out and make my own opinion about it. Having used flexis in quite a few applications and seen some that have been installed by plumbers, and their failure rates, I just do not have confidence in them. If you and anyone else uses them and rates them highly, then that's fine, I do not have a problem with that, everyone does things to a method that they are happy with.

What's a fill loop made from most of time

 

[Mike Jackson]

But a fill loop is a temporary connection. (Or should be)

 

[lbp plg & htg]

You need to use them on some Unvented Cylinders - its the law!

 

[WaterTight]

I suppose there's a wider issue. People used to live in the same house all their life, do the same career, stay married to the same person. Impermanance is now the norm. I don't think the manufacturers have any intention of their flexible hoses lasting 30 years. Nothing does. It's actually a bad business model. Much more lucrative to build an eventual fail date into the product.

A flexi is a plumbing part designed to last long enough that the person in the house doesn't not know or no longer remembers the name of the firm who installed it or considers it long enough ago that the plumber wouldn't be held liable when it goes. In that sense it really is the plumbing material of the modern age.

 

[Guest123]

You need to use them on some Unvented Cylinders - its the law!

But not the cheap imported ones that are causing the problems and are now common place. If you install a cheap imported flexi on a unvented cylinder, then you have a problem.

 

[Guest123]

What's a fill loop made from most of time

A fill loop is a temporary connection and is supposed to be removed after use.

 

[jase158]

went to a job yesterday, 2 flexis on hot to shower, 2 flexis to cold on shower all leaking. I replaced and it was 1 length of pipe for each, cold had 1 bend, hot had 3 bends, connected both with an isolation valve on one end and coupling on other end, whole job took me an hour.

I was amazed at why they didnt do this in the first place.

Pipes wont ever leak. even when they get old and start to corrode.

Flexis are made of stainless steel aren't they? which will rust and fall apart after 5-10 years?

 

[Mike Jackson]

went to a job yesterday, 2 flexis on hot to shower, 2 flexis to cold on shower all leaking. I replaced and it was 1 length of pipe for each, cold had 1 bend, hot had 3 bends, connected both with an isolation valve on one end and coupling on other end, whole job took me an hour.

I was amazed at why they didnt do this in the first place.

Pipes wont ever leak. even when they get old and start to corrode. Yes they do, i regularly replace corroded leaking pipes.

Flexis are made of stainless steel aren't they? which will rust and fall apart after 5-10 years? High grade stainless won't rust but the stainless braiding is just a covering for the rubber underneath which is the weak point as thebraiding is not watertight.

I've had properties where the owner has requested all plumbing is done in plastic due to the problems they've had with corrosion.

 

[Guest123]

Corrosion depends a lot on if you live in a hard or soft water area, but I've never seen a copper pipe burst in the way that a cheap flexi has. In the vast majority of properties that have copper throughout, they experience little problem and their pipework will last as long as the building itself.

In 20 or so years, when all those O rings start to pop, the younger guys on here will be really busy.