Unvented course

[Gray0689]

I'm not saying there should not be a course but there seems to be a stigma with unvented cylinders
They are simple but correct safety is a must

 

[chris watkins]

Change of material for D2, and now allowed to use hep2o self seal valve Dow allows connection to internal stack,I've done a few reassessment guys lately and they are moaning about having to redo the course but they don't know about the changes and have forgotten about sizing the D2 so they don't help the cause for saying reassessment isn't needed

Preciously my point, thanks kirkgas (from the horses mouth as it were).

 

[jase158]

yeah, to be honest there was a lot that I didnt realise before that I now know.
If I hadnt done the course,I wouldnt work on unvented,
1. filter in the mixed valve (if you didnt know you would spend hours trying to work it out)
2. hepvo valve and the different ways of running the D2 pipe
i.e. they are all small things but worth a days training.

the 9 metre rule is this

the D2 pipe must be 1 size larger then the the D1 pipe.
this must be a maximum of 9 metre including all bends (see manual for bend resistance)
if it is to be larger then the sizes must be increased to allow the pressure and heat to travel

very hard to explain in basic terms

 

[markfxy]

why do you need to do a reassessment just because you can now use plastic pipes and hepVo valves why can't the sponging training centers send out an amendment for us to read or do they think it needs to be drummed into us, It couldn't possibly be because they want to relieve you of another £200.00 for a half day course could it:wink_smile:

 

[Mike Jackson]

The need for re-assessment is not down to the colleges. They are just fulfilling a role. It's a fact of modern day life that nothing can be taken on trust any more and we need to prove competency in more and more things.

There is no requirement to take the training you can just go and be assessed but I always take the training because in the intervening 5 years some things may have changed but also it is entirely possible that I may have forgotten things or not used certain aspects of it. I also find it useful to get my mind back in the way of thinking for exams as doing things correctly and being able to interpret things on paper are not always the same.

 

[chris watkins]

why do you need to do a reassessment just because you can now use plastic pipes and hepVo valves why can't the sponging training centers send out an amendment for us to read or do they think it needs to be drummed into us, It couldn't possibly be because they want to relieve you of another £200.00 for a half day course could it:wink_smile:

Or could it possible be that when Part G of the building Reg's changed in 2010 (& it was publicised in the trade press) only a few silly people like me bothered to down load it (all free of charge) & read it to find out what was now required by the law ?

Of course you would now know what is required to be installed to every newly installed bath (not replacement for some reason) or what safety requirements are now required if a vented cylinder has only a 15mm open vent ? How about that it is now legal requirement that plastic cisterns be placed upon a base that extends at least 150mm bigger it.
These are just a couple of a whole raft of changes that require some explanation not just some piece of paper sent out with the likes of = D1 is now 600mm max, which clearly most engineers will not read any way, not withstanding that the visit to the training centre could be a chance to refresh your understanding of the subject.

I am in no way in favour of assessment for assessment sake but on this one it is clear that there is wholesale miss understanding when as I have said before at least 75% for all the units we visit are incorrectly installed.

Can I suggest that you attend the training (& assessment) Mark, before you pass comment on what it contains, you may just, like me learn some thing new, even if you think you are up to date.

 

[markfxy]

Ive attended the training total waste of time whats the point in a course with an exam at the end that nobody fails FYI I'v also taken water regs, working at eights, Solar thermal, Solar PV heat pumps 17th edition & 2391 inspection & test so before you pass comment Chris Watkins can I suggest you take a running jump

 

[jase158]

working at eights??? what about working at sevens?

and all he is trying to say is that the whole point is because there is loads of things that change and even if nothing changes in 5 years, the following 5 years they might change everything and it is worth the updating even if it doesnt seem like it

 

[Gray0689]

The things that have changed on unvented in last 10 years could be learnt in 10 mins

 

[markfxy]

You can now run the discharge in plastic somebody who hasn't taken the reassessment might still be running it in copper! a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[jase158]

what is the name of the new all in one valve?
what is the minimum incoming pressure for an unvented cylinder?
what can you do if there isnt enough pressure coming in to the property?
what do you do if a component is not working and you cant get a replacement for 3 days?

 

[jase158]

oh and probably the most important is, if you were putting a whole new system in and there was to be new electrics to the central heating in the house would you need an electrician, would you be able to do it as being part P registered or do you need the full 17th edition?

 

[chris watkins]

Ive attended the training total waste of time whats the point in a course with an exam at the end that nobody fails FYI I'v also taken water regs, working at eights, Solar thermal, Solar PV heat pumps 17th edition & 2391 inspection & test so before you pass comment Chris Watkins can I suggest you take a running jump

Well done mark for someone who was so vociferous in there dislike of a training course you ain't half taken a few.
Do you know, some of the worst tradesman I have met in my career are those with every qualification under the sun but an understanding of none, not suggesting for one minute that this applies to you mark.

 

[Gray0689]

what is the name of the new all in one valve?
what is the minimum incoming pressure for an unvented cylinder?
what can you do if there isnt enough pressure coming in to the property?
what do you do if a component is not working and you cant get a replacement for 3 days?

Combination valves are not new jase
Min is about 1.5 bar but that can also be dependent on flow rate also
Depends on component jase lol
How many cylinders you fitted in your time jase

 

[markfxy]

I don't dislike training courses if you'd bothered to read what I've said I dislike the courses where any numpty can attend and get a qualification. How would you know what qualifications the so called worst tradesmen have got do you ask for their cards when you meet them?

 

[jase158]

Combination valves are not new jase
Min is about 1.5 bar but that can also be dependent on flow rate also
Depends on component jase lol
How many cylinders you fitted in your time jase

not being rude and if you read OP I have only just passed but I am a strong believer on reassessments. Maybe it is coming across on this forum but I am just trying to see if you know everything, there was quite a few changes (according to the college) when the new building regs came out, so there has been quite a few changes

 

[chris watkins]

The things that have changed on unvented in last 10 years could be learnt in 10 mins

Would be interested if you could answer just the two questions in post 56 in just your 10 mins Gray ?
but more to the point your continued suggestion that there is no need for training or assessment in this area may give the impression to those that do not have it, that there is no need to & they will start working with these systems & that can not be a good thing can it ????????????????

How many un-vent HW systems do you go out to where there are no installation faults ??

 

[Gray0689]

Jase no one knows everything I learn something new everyday I don't remember how many I have fitted
The things that have changed are not the safety devices just the way they can be discharged

 

[Nostrum]

Sorry, agree with markfxy, They are all scammers out for your money. Apparently no one has ever failed a re-assesment ACS?

I've seen people walk out with a certificate that didn't have a clue. I've also done quite a few assessments and with the exception of 2391, they are all multiple choice, 4 answers with 3 chances? Come on. The only thing they test you on is your book reading abilities.

This is why they ask really obscure questions that can only be found in the book, rather than maybe a closed book paper concentrating on the stuff you really should know of the top of your head, and leaving the specific BS numbers or dates of change etc out, as let's be honest, if you need to know this, you'll look in the book.

Sorry, but you only have to look at the competence levels of the tradesmen out there to realise these courses mean naff all, Chris, your comment about 75% of installs being wrong is a good example.

 

[dancinplumba]

Would be interested if you could answer just the two questions in post 56 in just your 10 mins Gray ?
but more to the point your continued suggestion that there is no need for training or assessment in this area may give the impression to those that do not have it, that there is no need to & they will start working with these systems & that can not be a good thing can it ????????????????

How many un-vent HW systems do you go out to where there are no installation faults ??

is it not post 46 chris ?

 

[dancinplumba]

Would be interested if you could answer just the two questions in post 56 in just your 10 mins Gray ?
but more to the point your continued suggestion that there is no need for training or assessment in this area may give the impression to those that do not have it, that there is no need to & they will start working with these systems & that can not be a good thing can it ????????????????

How many un-vent HW systems do you go out to where there are no installation

 

[markfxy]

A bit of common sense is worth far more than a reassessment maybe fast track plumbers should be tested for this first before being allowed to install unvented

 

[dancinplumba]

soz am talking rubbish

 

[jase158]

Jase no one knows everything I learn something new everyday I don't remember how many I have fitted
The things that have changed are not the safety devices just the way they can be discharged

And I know you are more experienced, qualified and everything then me but what I am saying is that the reassessments are worth it even if it is 1 thing you learn, it is 1 thing which will save someones life and your career

 

[peteheat]

Combination valves are not new jase
Min is about 1.5 bar but that can also be dependent on flow rate also
Depends on component jase lol
How many cylinders you fitted in your time jase

I think Jase asked the questions as a pointer to what he learned, unlike my experience I had to rely on M.I.'s simply because we don't have the standards in place, yes I would gladly have paid the money to be more confident in my installations.

Looks like I was ahead of the UK regs as I always used plastic for the discharge, the only reason being I'm too mean to use copper all the way