USA Unvented cylinder - water pressure

[Tim0212]

Hi, looking for advice about unvented cylinder. I had one installed as part of a horrific modular loft conversion that was recently finished. The water pressure in the bathrooms is poor, probably worse than when just had combi and I cant use two showers/bathrooms at one time which was the point in having it installed. When first installed it seemed good but then there was a leak in the system. Leak was fixed but pressure now poor. The tested cold incoming measures at 22 lpm and 3 bar but when i check this in bathrooms its less than 8lpm. The plumber is refusing to return as loft company arent paying him(think theyre going under) and his only advice is that the incoming supply is the issue. Im not convinced though due to rate during test and i've recently tested outside tap and its 3 times quicker than inside. The new shower in loft occassionally has fluntuating pressure that you can see by eye. Does anyone have any advice?

 

[Scott_D]

@Tim0212
Best thing to do is call the cylinder manufacturer first thing in the morning
Get them to put in writing if that cylinder can be fitted horizontally.

 

[Tim0212]

@Tim0212
Best thing to do is call the cylinder manufacturer first thing in the morning
Get them to put in writing if that cylinder can be fitted horizontally.

Yeah was planning to do this before anything

 

[Riley]

As they make a horizontal version I’d guess not

 

[Tim0212]

Im wondering whether the horizontal would even fit. Especially with supporting brackets. I'll let you know how i get on.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Im wondering whether the horizontal would even fit. Especially with supporting brackets. I'll let you know how i get on.

tbh not you problem (prob will be at the end of it )

 

[Riley]

So currently it’s not even bracketed?????

 

[ShaunCorbs]

So currently it’s not even bracketed?????

yes the pipework is holding it

 

[Riley]

It just sounds like a serious accident waiting to happen

 

[Riley]

Any updates Tim I’m intrigued

 

[Tim0212]

Any updates Tim I’m intrigued

So spoke with manfacturer and they advised its not certifiable and will have to come out. They advise that its a performance issue rather than a safety issue and ive email structural engineers to confirm point loading. Contacted loft firm who acted very surprised even though they've clearly made a timber frame for it to sit when should have bracket. Ive requested the certs of installer - gas safe and G3. I spoke to manufacturer about pump on return and they said thats normal for horizontal but not needed for vertical so a definite bodge. What makes this all the more worse is that this was installed the day after the painters finished! So house was ripped apart to install something that would never recieve sign off and isnt fit for purpose. This comes after 3 months of pain with builders that didnt have a clue about building regulations. Looks at landmark lofts website and see how polished the marketting is. Feel like such a mug for falling for it!

 

[Riley]

Happens so often mate and I’m sorry you’ve been stung. I’d be very very surprised if the “plumber” is qualified. I don’t think you’ve “fallen” for anything how do you know unless you’re a mind reader. I’m guessing by the way you’re talking that they weren’t the cheapest as we so often hear about. I’d be tempted to send the same request for credentials to the plumber

 

[Riley]

Also you mention that the cylinder has had a wood frame built it’s an irrelevance as the thing shouldn’t be on its side

 

[Tim0212]

Also you mention that the cylinder has had a wood frame built it’s an irrelevance as the thing shouldn’t be on its side

Yeah i know that but considering loft firm do 3 modular lofts a week, and many will have cylinders, they must have known what they were positioning was incorrect - apart from anything else it didnt have bracket and they had to fashion one out of timber

 

[Chuck]

Yeah i know that but considering loft firm do 3 modular lofts a week, and many will have cylinders, they must have known what they were positioning was incorrect - apart from anything else it didnt have bracket and they had to fashion one out of timber

If you suspect that this is not a one-off problem with a subcontractor that is going to be quickly and effectively sorted-out by the main company, you may find that Watchdog is interested in your story:

BBC One - Watchdog - Send your story to Watchdog

 

[Riley]

Well yes I see your point however not all houses are going to have cylinders. I’d never put them in the eaves unless there was exceptionally good access going forward. How is the annual service going to be carried out otherwise

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yeah i know that but considering loft firm do 3 modular lofts a week, and many will have cylinders, they must have known what they were positioning was incorrect - apart from anything else it didnt have bracket and they had to fashion one out of timber

You think if they have done the same

 

[Riley]

In addition if I were you mate I would be tempted to get an independent assessment carried out as soon as possible before anything is attempted to be corrected

 

[Riley]

You think if they have done the same

the problem is that I reckon the firm and the plumber are going to liberally blame each other this could all be down to a muppet of a “plumber” advising the loft co what they need. I cannot believe that if this guy is a qualified plumber that he would have attempted to fit this cylinder this way

 

[Tim0212]

Well I reckon quite a few of them have cylinders as the selling point is that its the only opportunity to have in eaves. Photo of how module came, so two bits together with all pipework to eaves already completed in factory. The loft firm spec'd it and run the flow/pressure test.

 

[Tim0212]

These are the modules

 

[Riley]

Sounds to me that if that’s the case then whoever specced their design model doesn’t understand plumbing

 

[Riley]

I had a nose on their website. As you say very professional looking. To be fair you’ve not mentioned the actual loft. Is that actually ok?

 

[Tim0212]

Indeed.

Im still potentially in a position where it gets replaced and still have two bathrooms which dont work simultaniously. The pressure was better when 1st floor shower was straight from combi. Is this because it was 15mm all the way to shower rather than 15mm into 22mm?

 

[Tim0212]

Loft was a joke. Ive had to have independent roofer to fix what they had done. It didnt come tiled like website shows. I was homeless for 9 weeks, instead of 2 weeks discussed, and day before installation building firm didnt understand plans. Only via escalation did engineers come and resolve it. It still took 12 hrs instead of 5 to fit on the day and at one point they gave up and said it wouldnt fit! Since then ivehad to review everything theyve done, review standards and then get them to do it again. They did everything 2 or 3 times before getting right. If i hadnt visited every day i dont know what would have happened. Iknow that there is a criminal case against landmark but dont know details. They have stopped paying builders and said.they wanted customers to pay contractor direct which makes me think they cant have money in their own accounts.

 

[Riley]

No

Indeed.

Im still potentially in a position where it gets replaced and still have two bathrooms which dont work simultaniously. The pressure was better when 1st floor shower was straight from combi. Is this because it was 15mm all the way to shower rather than 15mm into 22mm?

combi can only produce xx amount of hot water LPM and most are designed with 15mm inlet and outlet. the key with the operation of the an unvented cylinder is both good pressure but as importantly is the flow rate and that is what the larger bore pipework allows. That coupled with the fact that your cylinder is installed wrong I’m not surprised your water for the bathrooms is lacking. By getting the right cylinder in there you should see a dramatic improvement. I would usually recommend that someone upgrades their incoming main for an unvented but I realise you’ve spent a fortune on this already and I get the feeling you won’t get anywhere with the company