Can you sign off an installation done by a non-GSR plumber?

[newcastle phill]

I think what you are saying is there is good and bad in everything ??

However the sort of supervised scenario you describe is still technically illegal but if no ones looking well there ya go youve got away with it amd your quids in.

 

[Ric2013]

No, what I am saying is that a lot of education and regulation is about making more excuses for posh rich people to make more money and to look more puffed up and pompous.

"However the sort of supervised scenario you describe is still technically illegal but if no ones looking well there ya go youve got away with it and your quids in." Well, not really quids in, but I got some valuable work experience and helped out the guy who was giving me that experience: that was more the point. Who really believes apprentices are always going to be in the same room as the boss?

Hang on... police at the door...

 

[newcastle phill]

If thats your take on education - whatever, im not gonna change your concieted view.

However gas regulations are there to protect people from themselves amd to ensure recognised safe working practices.
If you mess up with gas - you don't get many second chances.

 

[Ric2013]

I'm not against education Phil, my point is that the system is being exploited for profit.

Nor am I against gas regulations. What I was trying to explain is why, in my opinion, Gas Safe registration is not as respected is it should be.

 

[tamz]

Father i have a confession>

Last week i signed a boiler off that wee Drew did without me even looking at it. He brought the boiler book up to my house and i filled it in with all the right numbers and signed it at the bottom with my number on it.
Am i worried............no because Drew was the best apprentice i ever had and i know how he works. He may be selling caravans for a living these days and the last time he had a gas ticket was around 2000 but he knows more than half the idiots in this trade these days.

4 our fathers and 3 hail Marys for my sins and i don't give a fk.

The system is shyte but it is what it is

 

[SteveWannadoGas]

I may or may not have heard about a gent who may or may not be registered, doing gas work, not so far from me, that "a tutor" may or may not know about, but he says that although he isn`t registered, he knows his stuff and his work is faultless. :O Wonder what happens when the appliance guarantee is called on? Having seen a couple of installations done for me, Im not sure standards are what they could or should be. But we all know that.

For example I had a boiler like for like combi, put in by a couple of lads, didnt even fill around the hole where the flue goes through the wall, never mind putting the rubber seal around it. I think once I paid them, they packed their tools and cleared off. Less than impressive. They also ran the condense pipe down the side of the house, terminating at the bottom of the wall. It was suggested to me that in time, this could affect the foundations.

I asked a tutor about this and he said it was bad. I had to re-route it myself, into the guttering.

PS yes its costing a fortune to get trained (and hopefully registered) but that doesn`t make me competent. It does however mean I have a lot to lose if I screw up.

I was surprised to see (sitting his written exams) at the training centre, an ex classmate. How he got through the initial training, I don`t know. I recall on one m/c paper he got 16 out of 30 wrong. He won`t be working in my house. I have a suspicion that the practical assessor sent him home because he just wasnt ready. In my view, he was pretty clueless.

 

[kay-jay]

- there had to be an element of trust that I would to continue to work exactly as instructed and shown and not, say, switch from Everflux to LaCo half way through the job. .

How exactly would switching flux affect workmanship?

 

[Ric2013]

How exactly would switching flux affect workmanship?

I don't know. I was just told to use the Everflux for the gas run, not Laco or Powerflow. My understanding was that the more aggressive fluxes were better avoided for gas and that Everflux is relatively mild. But then I'm not a RGI and I let him make the decision on how the jointing was to be carried out.

 

[newcastle phill]

As I said earlier - if it all goes well and no one knows then hey-ho. Everyones happy and what more can be added...

Its when the carp hits the fan.
Anyway nothing more to add along with Riley.

People roll how they roll

 

[AlexGas]

It took me 4 years to get my Gas ticket, 4 years and about 10 grand. Do I stick to the rules? Yes. Why do I want to loose my livelihood and all the effort I put in to get where I'm now for 50 quid or 500 quid!? Don't think so!!!

The answer on the initial question is YES but legally NO. One can do whatever he wants... but there's a price to pay if you get caught. It's the same as asking - can I drive at 150 miles per hour on the road. That's total disregard for others wellbeing! You might get away with it or not... there could be a free food for you on offer in prison... The choice is yours!

 

[kirkgas]

thats a separate issue.

the point is, hes perfectly ok to sign off any work he wants to, but its his name on the line and if the job isnt up to scratch, then its him who will be answerable for that.

That's not strictly true, knowingly signing off illegal work is against Gas Safe Registration, unless it's pulled a part and confirmed/fixed to make it fully compliant (eg if the customer has been hoodwinked by illegal installer) but to pop along and sign off a job once it's illegally done is a no no

 

[Chriswareham]

if you are signing someone ounces work off surely there are braking the law by touching and intalling boilers gas cookers gas fires (but what if they have not tuched the gas and asked you to do the last connectison to the gas) and then check there work are they allowed to do this?

 

[heatwave]

if you are signing someone ounces work off surely there are braking the law by touching and intalling boilers gas cookers gas fires (but what if they have not tuched the gas and asked you to do the last connectison to the gas) and then check there work are they allowed to do this?

The legislation in place is quite clear. There is no grey area in gas work. If you are not deemed to be competent by way of relevant ACS element for any given appliance, then you don't even open the box ! Its not only fitting it, but also possessing the correct knowledge to read and interpret the manufacturers' instructions and also having the correct test & commissioning equipment to ensure that the appliance is working correctly upon completion.

I have absolute zero respect for anyone who carries out illegal / unauthorised gas work, and sub-zero respect for any registered gas installer who is prepared to sign off gas work carried out by A.N.Other. These people are cutting their own throat, wrecking the industry even further and quite frankly deserve to lose their GSReg in the event that they are caught out.

I applaud the enforcement authorities and the Courts for the high level of Draconian Fines & penalties that are being given out for the very successful prosecutions bought by the HSE & Gas Safe.

 

[Chriswareham]

sorry for my ignorance but way are you not gas safe i am new to this i am gas safe and i am trying to get the logo on here if you are gas safe way are you not no here as gas safe am i missing some think i have sent my card as a photo to them but sill wating

 

[SteveSussex]

its perfectly ok to sign off an installation. And I`m saying that because I checked with GasSafe about it.

 

[Dan]

its perfectly ok to sign off an installation. And I`m saying that because I checked with GasSafe about it.

What did they say exactly?

What happens when plumbers work under one ticket? Is that the same kinda thing?

 

[SteveSussex]

since i didnt record the call, i cant tell you word for word. But they said it was not a problem.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

its perfectly ok to sign off an installation. And I`m saying that because I checked with GasSafe about it.

you can but to put it bluntly its your bottom on the line if anything goes wrong

eg

flue not cut / connected right or even short
gas pipework dangers etc

the list can go on

its down to do you trust the guy that installed it

and you have to do your checks, but you cant check everything

 

[SteveSussex]

you can but to put it bluntly its your bottom on the line if anything goes wrong

eg

flue not cut / connected right or even short
gas pipework dangers etc

the list can go on

its down to do you trust the guy that installed it

and you have to do your checks, but you cant check everything

yes of course its "at your own risk". Its your registration on the line. But having checked with GS, its perfectly ok.

 

[rpm]

yes of course its "at your own risk". Its your registration on the line. But having checked with GS, its perfectly ok.

So why would you do it having spent so much time & money?

 

[Dan]

So the thread is a bit misleading maybe. Seem to have got a bit roudy against some that suggest this. I'll clear up the thread a bit (and have done a couple of posts already).

What exactly are the rules?

Can your apprentice run pipe and hang the boiler, as long as you check it as you go?

Can you actually sign off somebody else fully doing it, as long as you do the checks?

Are the couple of articles linked to just down to it going wrong? And if so, would a GSR plumber causing the same issue (i think the first link was the wrong flu was fitted?), Would he get a fine too?

 

[Dan]

So why would you do it having spent so much time & money?

If it's just down to keeping your earnings high that's another totally different thread isn't it?

Make one if you fancy doing that discussion maybe?

 

[rpm]

It is nothing to do with keeping earnings high it is to do with your name being on the paperwork if /when the house goes bang! Would you take that chance Dan if it was your name on the paperwork?

 

[Dan]

It is nothing to do with keeping earnings high it is to do with your name being on the paperwork if /when the house goes bang! Would you take that chance Dan if it was your name on the paperwork?

It's just with you saying time and money, i assume you mean training and whatnot?

So more down to price?

You have said safety before but not in that post. So perhaps i presumed wrongly?

 

[rpm]

It's just with you saying time and money, i assume you mean training and whatnot?

So more down to price?

You have said safety before but not in that post. So perhaps i presumed wrongly?

The average guy spends a lot of time (sometimes years) and money to earn their gas safe ticket so if some fly by night comes along and says "I`ll give you £x to sign my work off" that in my book is just plain wrong and dangerous to anybody that lives in the same street.