Fast track courses worth it?

[chris watkins]

I dont see why you have to be so negative chris... No I dont know every regulation, hence I would take advice on every job and look at regulations that pertain to the job i under take. What you should be saying is "make sure you look up xyz or ensure you work within abc. but no, you have to just snear and put down. Good job there are others more helpful and less threatened like system3.

If you have no understand as to why I am getting a little tied for all the "I know, I don't like my job so I will start plumbing after all I have done a few jobs at home" then you should read the threads & posts on here a bit more.
Jay if you start work & come back on hear you will find I will more than happily answer your questions, the problem is with due respect, that you know very little about plumbing & the regulations so how are you going to know what questions to ask me or any of the other. For that you need to be trained don't you ??

 

[Scots Jay]

1) if you look back my first questions were about finding flexible training.
2) Youre right I dont know the questions, but I know what job Ill be doing and an experience plumber offering me advice will point out what i need to watch for.
3) all Im doing is replacing existing kitchens and bathrooms, (Usually in the same layout)

Therefore fairly familiar ground for me, Ill only undertake different jobs out side of this after i have had training and probably tried it out on my own properties!

There does that make sence? enough of your plumbing police attitude I think

 

[chris watkins]

Yes, thats lovely, good luck at the kitchen/bathroom replacement business, hope it does work out well for you.
PS. could you let me have details of your London job, cos I have a 24year old son, been out of work for nearly a year now, who could jump right into your shoe's, he has a degree & the loans to prove it.

 

[Scots Jay]

HI Chris,

Im sure he could jump into my job at a lower rate of pay and be limited in what he is able to do, just like me in plumbing. Interestingly I started out in what I do now 14 years ago with no experience at all, started small and grew over time, had some great people who offered me advice when I asked and sometimes when i didnt allways helping me improve. And yes the sector I work in has allways been far more regulated than plumbing (its the medical sector) so there is hope for me that I can learn a new skill in another regulated environment.

 

[chris watkins]

Jay thats good to know & I really do hope you make a go of it, let us know how you get on. You may see from my posts that I am not so bad after all, just trying to help keep a trade from disintegrating completely from such a massive influx of un-trained, inexperienced people with unrealistic expectations, which does not help anybody connected with it.

& you are sure that he could take over your job without any training, albeit at a lower rate of pay? It is just that I have heard that them medical type don't like it unless you have some formal qualifications ??

 

[Taps-N-Traps]

To be fair Ive not really struggled for plumbing work, but I know of guys who have, I done all my training the hard way by starting out basic and putting the hard slog in at college and to be honest it has paid off, ching ching, however to be honest I have freinds who have been through the fast track service and I am inundated with calls because there understanding of plumbing is lacking some what, so my advice would be if you have the time look at evening courses and doing the apprenticeships you will learn more and gain a better understanding of this fantastic proffesion and I agree it is so easy to get out of your depths from time to time however thats were expereince pays off.

 

[Scots Jay]

If he went into the business end of the medical industry he wouldnt need a medical qualification, just a brass neck, some chat and an ability to listen and learn. he would start on about £16-£18K. After 14 years Im about to leave the industry on £72K (He should forget about a social life and weekends. Hospitals never close and niether do people that work with them.

 

[hunterseye]

Scots Jay, if you feel confident enough in your abilities, then go for it! It's not all doom and gloom out there, I've got 7 bathrooms booked in and 2 more to come.

All this negativity on here is pure bull **** and if you work hard and do the very best work that you can, set yourself very high standards and be prepared to go out there and do everything possible to bring the work in, then you'll succeed. If you sit on your rse in front of a computer and moan like some of them on here about a lack of work when you should be out there chasing it then you'll crash and burn just like them.

Welcome to the forums.

Fantastic advise system, positive mental attitude and keeping humble really can help.

 

[petercj]

I think part of the problem with some posts on here is that they have made a judgement about fast-track training courses without knowing anything about the trainee.

Having some relevant knowledge combined with transferable skills will make fast-track learning easier, e.g. someone with a background in any aspect of engineering moving into gas work. Plus, some people learn better in class-room situations than other people do, so what might be a disaster for some folk will be possible for others.

Private training providers might over-egg the benefits of fast-track, but then most marketing pushes the benefits of the product being sold, and leaves out any downside, so it falls to commonsense to look beyond the gloss.

The safest bet for most people will be to get some independent advice from a training or careers adviser, which might cost a couple of hundred quid, but if you are thinking of investing your time and money in a change of career, it's likely to be money well spent.

Fast-track is going to mean coping with a steep learning curve and finding opportunities to put theory into practice, but as some people on here have confirmed, it can be done if people have the right attitude and aptitude - and a big dollop of luck will no doubt help to make the wheels turn in the right direction.

I heard an interview many years ago with the guy who set up up Dewhursts the butchers (which for the younger generation was a national change of butchers) when asked about the secret of his success he said it was mainly down to three things: hard work; knowing the right people, and a lot of luck. Which I've always thought was a very sound and down-to-earth answer to a question that often draws an egocentric reply.

As lady-luck would have it, the supermarkets took over the sale of meat, and the Dewhurst chain of butcher shops was wiped out in the mid 90's, despite his hard work and knowing the right people. But his basic formula explained the downfall.

 

[hunterseye]

I think part of the problem with some posts on here is that they have made a judgement about fast-track training courses without knowing anything about the trainee.

Having some relevant knowledge combined with transferable skills will make fast-track learning easier, e.g. someone with a background in any aspect of engineering moving into gas work. Plus, some people learn better in class-room situations than other people do, so what might be a disaster for some folk will be possible for others.

Private training providers might over-egg the benefits of fast-track, but then most marketing pushes the benefits of the product being sold, and leaves out any downside, so it falls to commonsense to look beyond the gloss.

The safest bet for most people will be to get some independent advice from a training or careers adviser, which might cost a couple of hundred quid, but if you are thinking of investing your time and money in a change of career, it's likely to be money well spent.

Fast-track is going to mean coping with a steep learning curve and finding opportunities to put theory into practice, but as some people on here have confirmed, it can be done if people have the right attitude and aptitude - and a big dollop of luck will no doubt help to make the wheels turn in the right direction.

I heard an interview many years ago with the guy who set up up Dewhursts the butchers (which for the younger generation was a national change of butchers) when asked about the secret of his success he said it was mainly down to three things: hard work; knowing the right people, and a lot of luck. Which I've always thought was a very sound and down-to-earth answer to a question that often draws an egocentric reply.

As lady-luck would have it, the supermarkets took over the sale of meat, and the Dewhurst chain of butcher shops was wiped out in the mid 90's, despite his hard work and knowing the right people. But his basic formula explained the downfall.

well said. I suspect the stats of successful college/apprentice trained plumbers outweigh successful fast track plumbers,but as you rightly point out you have to look somewhat beyond the term "fast track" for some guys. Its nice to see a balanced approach from some of you guys on here.

 

[petercj]

well said. I suspect the stats of successful college/apprentice trained plumbers outweigh successful fast track plumbers,but as you rightly point out you have to look somewhat beyond the term "fast track" for some guys. Its nice to see a balanced approach from some of you guys on here.

I would guess that most people who fail to succeed following fast-track training do so due to lack of support - BG use fast-track training methods, but because the trainees are in a supportive structure and have opportunities to consolidate their learning they probably have a good success rate.

Starting up in business at the moment is a massive challenge in itself, and setting out with little practical experience makes the challenge even riskier. But then what are people who are unemployed to do? Employers can cherry-pick from people who have experience, and people with mortgages/ families to support can't afford to invest the time it takes to do college courses - not to mention feeling totally out of the swing of things with a group of 16 to 18 year-olds.

The Government diverted funding away from the colleges to invest in apprenticeships, but then apprenticeships require employers to take trainees on, and most employers don't want to know during a recession. The reduction in funding has meant that FE colleges have had to reduce the length of their full-time courses - my son completed a level 3 Advanced Diploma in Professional Cookery last year in a FE college, and he only got two days a week in college. He had a choice of signing on and getting JSA, or going to college and getting sod all to live on! He managed to get a part-time job last December, but what he does requires an understanding of microwave operation and the kind of skills that could be picked up in a week. To cap it all, he gets ribbed by the microwave technicians he works with because he went to college! Being mature for his age he takes it in good humour. Hopefully, one day he will get the opportunity to put his three years worth of training into practice.

The way this Government have handled training is a total disgrace!

 

[hunterseye]

I would guess that most people who fail to succeed following fast-track training do so due to lack of support - BG use fast-track training methods, but because the trainees are in a supportive structure and have opportunities to consolidate their learning they probably have a good success rate.

Starting up in business at the moment is a massive challenge in itself, and setting out with little practical experience makes the challenge even riskier. But then what are people who are unemployed to do? Employers can cherry-pick from people who have experience, and people with mortgages/ families to support can't afford to invest the time it takes to do college courses - not to mention feeling totally out of the swing of things with a group of 16 to 18 year-olds.

The Government diverted funding away from the colleges to invest in apprenticeships, but then apprenticeships require employers to take trainees on, and most employers don't want to know during a recession. The reduction in funding has meant that FE colleges have had to reduce the length of their full-time courses - my son completed a level 3 Advanced Diploma in Professional Cookery last year in a FE college, and he only got two days a week in college. He had a choice of signing on and getting JSA, or going to college and getting sod all to live on! He managed to get a part-time job last December, but what he does requires an understanding of microwave operation and the kind of skills that could be picked up in a week. To cap it all, he gets ribbed by the microwave technicians he works with because he went to college! Being mature for his age he takes it in good humour. Hopefully, one day he will get the opportunity to put his three years worth of training into practice.

The way this Government have handled training is a total disgrace!

I'll second that. I did an evening class at college. I was surrounded by blokes like me that wanted to learn and get on, and quite frankly, we was just pay cheques for the college. The tutor was great, but the college couldn't care. Everything seems to be geared towards kids that don't give a hoot about what they're being tought. So like your son also, the people who have gained most from the skills being taught are bottom of the heap.
I had heard rumour of adult apprenticeships, but i'll prob be pushing up daisys when it comes to fruition. :nonod:

 

[Guest123]

Plumbers don't like fast track courses because they feel threatened by them. There are far bigger threats to our industry than fast track courses, this government and it's lack of growth in the economy being one of them.

Back in the day, it was said the supermarkets would kill off the local corner shop, but the local corner shops are still here.

 

[hunterseye]

Plumbers don't like fast track courses because they feel threatened by them. There are far bigger threats to our industry than fast track courses, this government and it's lack of growth in the economy being one of them.

Back in the day, it was said the supermarkets would kill off the local corner shop, but the local corner shops are still here.

To my mind system, plumbers should look at the oppertunities created from rectifying work from below average graduates of fast track schemes. And if the said Graduate, is any good then just accept that its healthy competition. And really if the guys moaning about the threat are up to scratch themselves should there even be this fear?
As i've stated before, i've done the college side but cant even work for free with someone to gain that much needed experiance. Its a tough route, but by no means would i disrespect you guys buy attempting to undercut and spit out shoddy work etc. Prob gonna get battered for this response lol. Go easy chaps:behead:

 

[acecharly]

The fast track approach is ok. As said already, support is essential. I dont care who you are, if you have no real hands on experience your likely to fail. Its not the person, its the indecision that comes with uncertainty through a lack of time doing the job. Basically in a nutshell fear of doing something wrong. Id advise some background in plumbing or ideally spending a couple of years at the side of somebody who is competant.

Also as has been said above anyone can suceed and make a good living. Ive been in this game for 16 years and ive seen alot. Theres no such defined thing as a plumber or heating engineer you have everything from a total pleb with a blowtorch from wilkinsons to a professional guy who can tell you the location of components inside a boiler just by being told its make and model number. (several of the later are members here).

Finally aim to be the best, not an engineer but the muts nuts. Knowledge is everything, flat out its the key to sucsess.

Good luck with it.

 

[hunterseye]

The fast track approach is ok. As said already, support is essential. I dont care who you are, if you have no real hands on experience your likely to fail. Its not the person, its the indecision that comes with uncertainty through a lack of time doing the job. Basically in a nutshell fear of doing something wrong. Id advise some background in plumbing or ideally spending a couple of years at the side of somebody who is competant.

Also as has been said above anyone can suceed and make a good living. Ive been in this game for 16 years and ive seen alot. Theres no such defined thing as a plumber or heating engineer you have everything from a total pleb with a blowtorch from wilkinsons to a professional guy who can tell you the location of components inside a boiler just by being told its make and model number. (several of the later are members here).

Finally aim to be the best, not an engineer but the muts nuts. Knowledge is everything, flat out its the key to sucsess.

Good luck with it.

I'm the pleb with a blow torch.....haha i jest...my ciggy lighter is cutting the mustard so far.

 

[petercj]

To my mind system, plumbers should look at the oppertunities created from rectifying work from below average graduates of fast track schemes. And if the said Graduate, is any good then just accept that its healthy competition. And really if the guys moaning about the threat are up to scratch themselves should there even be this fear?
As i've stated before, i've done the college side but cant even work for free with someone to gain that much needed experiance. Its a tough route, but by no means would i disrespect you guys buy attempting to undercut and spit out shoddy work etc. Prob gonna get battered for this response lol. Go easy chaps:behead:

You just have to accept that you can't win with some people, i.e. it's the same people who will criticise you for trying to help yourself that would complain about you if you were claiming benefits.

All Respect to you for having the gumption to have a go.

Unfortunately, Britain has become a f-u-jack-I'm alright society!

 

[kirkgas]

West lothian, just out side falkirk

haha thats right on systems doorstep, once he sees this he will tell you not to bother going for it as there isnt any work about

 

[acecharly]

You just have to accept that you can't win with some people, i.e. it's the same people who will criticise you for trying to help yourself that would complain about you if you were claiming benefits.

All Respect to you for having the gumption to have a go.

Unfortunately, Britain has become a f-u-jack-I'm alright society!

You hit the nail on the head as usual Peter, everyone is out to screw everyone for whatever they can get. It goes right to the top even Cameron. I remember watching him speak before the olympics saying we need to come together and make this great for britain at the same time a load of people in a street somewhere up by York had put olympic symbols in their shop windows and were told if they did not take them down they would be in court the following monday. I dont think he cared one iota about it, all he cared about was what they could screw out of the tourists that came to watch.

 

[Howsie]

No, not everyone.

 

[nicro3]

In 1973/1974 the Jib allowed plumbers mates to be made up to plumbers, some of the existing plumbers complained it would kill the industry. It did not.

In the early eighties government trainee's after 6 months training entered the industry as trained plumbers. Again there were complaints from some existing plumbers ( some ex mates) it would kill the industry. It did not

 

[Howsie]

Btw, Cameron has nothing to do with the Olympic logo. It's a copyright issue with the IOC and they are *******s for pursuing anyone who misuses it (read: doesn't pay for the privilege).

 

[Subby]

Plumbers don't like fast track courses because they feel threatened by them. There are far bigger threats to our industry than fast track courses, this government and it's lack of growth in the economy being one of them.

Back in the day, it was said the supermarkets would kill off the local corner shop, but the local corner shops are still here.

BandQ are the biggest threat to our industry

 

[petercj]

I don't think heating or plumbing is under threat - times are hard for most working people at the moment, people just don't have the money to spend.

Whenever I go into B&Q I see mainly women eyeing up the bathroom suites, showers, etc. If they have a bloke with them the fellas are likely to be saying: "it's not as easy as it looks on the telly - get a plumber to do it!"

B&Q one week, and off to Relate the next!

Kingfisher have wiped out the small DIY shops and put it all in one large building, which might seem threatening, but I don't think it is. Most men are far less able at DIY than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Some females will have a go, but find out it's not as easy as it looks. My guess is that the majority of bathroom suites sold by B&Q are fitted by plumbers and not DIY'ers.

Painting and decorating maybe, but nothing that requires much in the way of technical know-how.

There was a thing on the radio recently where they asked people which wires went where in a plug, and only a few had any idea. About a third thought the blue wire was earth!

 

[tamz]

West lothian, just out side falkirk

Boness or Lithgy?

The demand seems to be there, I was away and had a water leak and it was two weeks before a plumber could get to me! There are two local plumbers.

I think you need to research the competition a bit more

There are 59 gas registered guys within a 6 mile radius of you and probably a lot more plumbers.