lead loc failed

[George792]

Fitted a bathroom suite back in april for large diy store, had to fit 2 lead locs to pipework, after fitting tested under pressure for leaks no problems. the job was left with plasterers and tilers with me going back to final fix. no problems when completed. just recieved bill for refit and repairs saying lead loc failed and im liable for damages have not been given chance to view the failed pipework as I no longer work for large diy store ????? any advice appreciated. lead loc fitted correctly and leak ree when I left.

 

[TGor]

Fitted a bathroom suite back in april for large diy store, had to fit 2 lead locs to pipework, after fitting tested under pressure for leaks no problems. the job was left with plasterers and tilers with me going back to final fix. no problems when completed. just recieved bill for refit and repairs saying lead loc failed and im liable for damages have not been given chance to view the failed pipework as I no longer work for large diy store ????? any advice appreciated. lead loc fitted correctly and leak ree when I left.

Hi George,

I guess it depends on how much is involved .. there are some things you can do.

1 ask the store for the leaking parts
2 contact the manufacturer and get them involved.
3 ask the store for an explanation as to why you weren't consulted re the leaks and given the opportunity to fix it yourself.
4 get a lawyer.
5 sue the clever people that banned wiped soldering of a brass ferrule to lead pipe.

gulluk

 

[justlead1]

Hi As No 3 in above post. If you were not aware of the problem ask them for photographic evidence, speak to house holder to find extent of the problem. These fittings are prone to leaks if subjected to the slightest of movement. It may well be others have knocked or pulled on pipework creating the fault?

 

[George792]

Thanks for replies, they are my thoughts too just nice to check with others in the trade, store not giving any explanation just a bill and and letter saying lead loc failed will be asking for photo evidence of the failed joint. thanks again

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

Absolutely

In this day and age we live in of 'Trust no one' you have to watch your back

How do they know its your fault?

If they believe it is, which obviously there is a posibility, then they have to prove it.

They are stupid if they think they can just send you a bill and you will pay it.

Stand your ground and ask for proof, See all they have, let them know your are forwarding everything to your solicitor as well

 

[Bernie2]

Try your local Trading Standards office as well. They may clarify your position regarding claims against you.

 

[Plouasne]

Absolutely

In this day and age we live in of 'Trust no one' you have to watch your back

How do they know its your fault?

If they believe it is, which obviously there is a posibility, then they have to prove it.

They are stupid if they think they can just send you a bill and you will pay it.

Stand your ground and ask for proof, See all they have, let them know your are forwarding everything to your solicitor as well

I would keep quiet about the solicitor for the moment, keep some of your powder dry for the second time around, do not let them know too much in advance of what your plans are, otherwise they will plan for a legal fight from the word go
But having said this have a word with a solicitor just to cover your back, and see how you stand
I think that they are "chancer's" and trying to scare you into paying up for a quiet life

 

[bobpape]

I agree with all of the advice given but would ask are you saying that the lead loc was to be plastered into the wall,

If it was not leaking when you left site it can always be argued that some one bashed
the joint it or pulled it about thereby causing it to leak the fact that you were not given the opportunity to fix it substantiates the argument, but one would have to be carefull not to suggest that a lead loc is the most reliable of fittings, like Plouasne says, a wiped joint would have been much better, and it is not your fault we can no longer use the method.

How much money are they talking about.

 

[Plouasne]

This question is aimed at the "old timers", I am wondering if the second world war method of jointing a cap and lining to a lead pipe, could make a come back

The method then was to ream out the end of the lead pipe and then use an internal cone shaped lignum vite shaping tool, to form an internal soldered joint, with little solder being used, if this could be adapted for use with lead free solder, it could be a way forward

 

[Puddle]

The store should not be sending you anything anyway; it should be from the house holder or their insurers or the stores insurers
This is not uncommon now with claims on the increase, the insurance companies try to recover costs were ever they can
If they can get a quick, cost effective settlement to help towards the erosion of their profits, they will
If you have liability insurance, you should inform them of the claim and they will ask you for a report and will deal with situation
If you have received a letter from the store its self and do not have liability insurance, you may think an idea just to ignore it for now, if not recorded, as it may be someone at the store fishing, trying to cover their bum, as said looking for a mug to sort out their mess, I find it so easy when you are dashing about to loose letters
If letter recorded, be firm in your reply, state works done correctly at time, do not ask for any information or give any more information at this time, You can seek legal advise if you wish, try to find a solicitor who gives first hour advise or join an trade body that gives access to limited free legal advise
At this stage let them do the running and don’t dive in, thinking you are doing the right thing, you will find lots of sharks waiting for you
The above is just some thoughts out loud; remember you should always take qualified advice

 

[rmbp]

Hello There, You should just do what these large diy stores do and ignore it, if you pressure tested it and it was ok. How can you possibly be to blame for it, But you should at least be given the chance to rectify it before they start flexing their legal muscles. Good luck

 

[Bernie2]

Unfortunately a sweated joint maybe superior to any lead loc. But the authorities are trying to remove lead out of the drinking water. So even sweating/wiping a joint would mean you where joining to lead which they would prefer not to be there. And as it is through Regulations they get you to do what they want or be fined.

We have no choice.

I must admit I have wiped/sweated I don't know how many joints, straight up, down side ways, branch, knuckle on waste pipes, on 4" soil ferrules and so on. They looked nice and pretty with a bit of bloc black on. The old Plumbers often said "Waiting for a joint to set was the only rest a Plumber got!"

I must admit though I don't think lead locs appeared to be very good. The answer of course was to replace the pipe if possible with copper or at a push plastic.

Would you get the time today to do anything else?

It was okay in my younger years Plumbers got paid about 2p an hour, so it never cost much for them to take a bit longer. Now companies wanted £50-60 an hour, so people don't want you hanging about wiping joints.

 

[david williams]

lead locs are a poor substitute for a proper wiped lead joint copper to lead or brass ferule. i still use the wiped joint [ not a taft wipe] and sod those who have banned it.at least you do not get sued when someone hits lead loc with plasteres trowl.

This question is aimed at the "old timers", I am wondering if the second world war method of jointing a cap and lining to a lead pipe, could make a come back

The method then was to ream out the end of the lead pipe and then use an internal cone shaped lignum vite shaping tool, to form an internal soldered joint, with little solder being used, if this could be adapted for use with lead free solder, it could be a way forward

what do you meen second world war i was still doing this 1969 on blocks of flats in kennington

 

[TGor]

lead locs are a poor substitute for a proper wiped lead joint copper to lead or brass ferule. i still use the wiped joint [ not a taft wipe] and sod those who have banned it.at least you do not get sued when someone hits lead loc with plasteres trowl.



what do you meen second world war i was still doing this 1969 on blocks of flats in kennington

Good onya David .. thats what I would do too ferkem! I also used to do lots of these about the same period .. replacing bathrooms. Cut the bluey back as far as you could then wipe in the brass ferrules .. I don't remember it taking a lot of time to do and I don't recall anyone dying as a result.. I used to shove a piece of bread up the pipe to hold the water back if needed ... used to work too, but had to remember to flush it out before connecting up along with the lead shavings if any ... Then I used to whiz down to the scrapyard and weigh in .. sometimes worth more than the labour on the job!!

Happy daze

 

[bobpape]

Anyone else know the differences between bull****, chicken****, horse****,

 

[TGor]

Anyone else know the differences between bull****, chicken****, horse****,

which comment only serves to tell us your own course of study did you pass in all 3 ???

 

[33ching]

Not having ever pressure tested anything in the real world yet I just wanted to check regarding pressure testing. When you pressure test a system I was told that you need to fill out paperwork, you get a copy and so does the customer stating the psi it was tested too and how long it was test for. This would be your evedience or proof it had been tested and passed.