OK for waste to run uphill a short distance?

[trf0412]

I wish all my customers were as easy going as the OP.
Seems to be a very decent and forgiving person.
I doubt if I would get away with that work for many of my customers.

Well, unfortunately it's not that simple to just sack someone and find an alternative when your bathroom has been ripped out and you have a family (with two kids under the age of 3) to think about. The time it takes to get a quote and find someone with availability in the area where we live would delay things by several weeks or months.

But I think the main reason I come across as forgiving is because as a customer, with very little to no knowledge of plumbing, I don't feel qualified to criticise work done by someone who is supposed to be a professional plumber. The only reason I was confident about questioning the waste pipework was because gravity is something everyone knows about (apart from our plumber it would seem!!).

Also, the suggestion to rip out everything he's done and start from scratch won't address the problem with the notches and holes not complying with building regs, so provided I can make sure there is a fall from the basin, what is there to be gained from starting again? Granted, the wastes could all be kept separate if everything was redone, but that would mean cutting more holes and weakening joists even more, so not ideal...

 

[trf0412]

He probably should have used a length of pipe between the tee and the elbow, right?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I wouldn't be happy with that (with what I've seen in the pic)


Basin pipe going through the joist too short

11/2 - 11/4 reducer not all the way in and male to female elbow the same

 

[trf0412]

Basin pipe going through the joist too short

11/2 - 11/4 reducer not all the way in and male to female elbow the same

Oh dear...! What issues are likely to arise from basin pipe going through joist being too short?

I showed plumber a screenshot of your suggested fix, and thought for the most part he'd done what I asked, but I didn't realise it was still so sub-standard.

I wondered whether the reducer should be sticking out the way it is, but provided there's a good seal, will that be a problem?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Other than looking terrible and putting more stress t end no

And supposed to be flush same with the elbow they could pop out

 

[FG28]

fitted bathrooms for years before doing the gas and now do the occasional one or two ,
All i can say is
Not even nvq1 level ,.
It will all work but it just looks horrific ,,
Be very intrested to see the finishing ,?
Is he tiling it too
Aqua panel or similair used around shower area ?
Intial silicone seal round tray ?
The lists endless ,.
Next time id just pay that little bit more and get a proper bathroom fitter not john the pushfit cowboy ,.
Good luck

 

[trf0412]

fitted bathrooms for years before doing the gas and now do the occasional one or two ,
All i can say is
Not even nvq1 level ,.
It will all work but it just looks horrific ,,
Be very intrested to see the finishing ,?
Is he tiling it too
Aqua panel or similair used around shower area ?
Intial silicone seal round tray ?
The lists endless ,.
Next time id just pay that little bit more and get a proper bathroom fitter not john the pushfit cowboy ,.
Good luck

The "it will all work" bit gives me at least some peace of mind, as it's been a bit stressful worrying about all this. But I won't be getting the ceiling below patched up until the bathroom has been in use for a few weeks, just to be on the safe side!

Pretty much all the bathroom fitters were quoting with a couple of hundred of each other, and I didn't go with the cheapest quote...

It's someone else doing the tiling.

Is it wrong to silicone the shower tray in place? I've a feeling that's what he's done...

 

[FG28]

The "it will all work" bit gives me at least some peace of mind, as it's been a bit stressful worrying about all this. But I won't be getting the ceiling below patched up until the bathroom has been in use for a few weeks, just to be on the safe side!

Pretty much all the bathroom fitters were quoting with a couple of hundred of each other, and I didn't go with the cheapest quote...

It's someone else doing the tiling.

Is it wrong to silicone the shower tray in place? I've a feeling that's what he's done...

If its a resin tray it HAS to be cement or a rapid set adhesive , there are quite a few that can be put down using mastic but i would not use a normal silicone , something like CT1 or sticks like , 2 very good grabs adhesives ,
Id google your tray fitting instructions if he hasnt left them there , else that really will come back to bite
Bathrooms really are simple if you do plumbing day in day out , can clearly see you fitter doesnt ? Is he young ? Cut him a little slack if hes just started out ,.

 

[trf0412]

If its a resin tray it HAS to be cement or a rapid set adhesive , there are quite a few that can be put down using mastic but i would not use a normal silicone , something like CT1 or sticks like , 2 very good grabs adhesives ,
Id google your tray fitting instructions if he hasnt left them there , else that really will come back to bite
Bathrooms really are simple if you do plumbing day in day out , can clearly see you fitter doesnt ? Is he young ? Cut him a little slack if hes just started out ,.

Yep, we have a stone resin tray, so I will definitely be looking for the instructions to see what they say. If he did use silicone, I think it may have been the Dow Corning one (good quality one?), as that got mentioned at one point. If it turns out it should have been cemented in and wasn't, what are the sorts of things that could go wrong?

Yep, he's pretty young (24) so I'm hoping the mistakes are due to lack of experience and not due to lack of training/qualifications! But I get the impression he's fitted quite a few bathrooms in his time.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

24 he should have an nvq if he doesn't he's not qualified

 

[trf0412]

Yep, shower tray instructions say tray must be installed on bed of sand & cement. I'm 90% sure I didn't see him put down any sand & cement unless he managed to knock some up and install it in the 15-0r-so mins I wasn't looking! But, I can see no sign whatsoever of a sand & cement mix having oozed out beyond the edge of the tray, which I think would be the case if it had been used, right?

I was happy to cut him a little slack with the messed up waste pipes (on the assumption I could get someone else in to fix things from below if absolutely necessary), but not installing a tray correctly and leaving open the possibility of it cracking several months or years down the line and leaving me with a big mess on my hands is making me seriously consider finding someone else to finish the job!

Just how easy will it be to remove it now he's siliconed it into place? Can the silicone be carefully cut away or have I already got a big problem on my hands?

 

[Best]

Probably the silicone will have glued the tray to the floor enough to prevent you moving it without damaging it.
Hard one to call, but if it is installed level and seem solid with no movement, it might not give trouble. Risk is yours though.

 

[trf0412]

Probably the silicone will have glued the tray to the floor enough to prevent you moving it without damaging it.
Hard one to call, but if it is installed level and seem solid with no movement, it might not give trouble. Risk is yours though.

Hmm... tricky. It's sat on a new piece of OSB flooring, so pretty level, but do I want to take the risk when the installation instructions say it must be installed STRICTLY in accordance with them? If I go down the route of removing it and it gets damaged, couldn't I deduct the cost of a replacement from what I pay him, since it would have been directly due to his negligence?

Talking of which, how do plumbers and clients generally agree on an amount to be paid when work is cut short in cases when the quote is for the whole job? Any advice?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Osb ? really tbh should be 18 marine ply

And work - anything bad / having to be re done which is most of it in my opinion

 

[trf0412]

We agreed on marine ply when he quoted me... and it got mentioned again in an email. Then the day he started the job he talked about using chipboard! I talked him out of that and we ended up with OSB, which I thought was as strong as ply and therefore this didn't concern me too much. What are the main reasons for using marine ply over OSB? (i.e. should I be considering having the flooring changed over?)

 

[ShaunCorbs]

We agreed on marine ply when he quoted me... and it got mentioned again in an email. Then the day he started the job he talked about using chipboard! I talked him out of that and we ended up with OSB, which I thought was as strong as ply and therefore this didn't concern me too much. What are the main reasons for using marine ply over OSB? (i.e. should I be considering having the flooring changed over?)

If it's gets wet for any reason it goes to mush and fails

That's mainly why we install cylinders or tanks on ply bases

 

[trf0412]

If it's gets wet for any reason it goes to mush and fails

That's mainly why we install cylinders or tanks on ply bases

OSB goes to mush as well? I know that happens with chipboard, but didn't know about OSB. So, if I have the tray redone, would you suggest replacing with marine ply? Or is that more of a belts & braces approach and OSB is just about ok?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

OSB goes to mush as well? I know that happens with chipboard, but didn't know about OSB. So, if I have the tray redone, would you suggest replacing with marine ply? Or is that more of a belts & braces approach and OSB is just about ok?

Well I would but will only go to mush if it's wet so thinking like that just make sure all your seals are good and mastics are good quality and are re sealed pre actively you should be fine

 

[trf0412]

What else should I be on the lookout for?

Hopefully all the hot & cold feeds are ok, as the room has now been plastered (no concerns there, though, as we used our own plasterer who has done an excellent job - put up a new suspended ceiling to make sure it's dead level, built out a wall so bath isn't sat in a corner which isn't a right angle etc.).

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Atm nothing should be just second fix if your happy ish atm

 

[trf0412]

Yeah, that's what I mean... what things could go wrong at the point of 2nd fix? He's already (i) shown complete ignorance of building regs, (ii) messed up waste pipes, even on 2nd attempt, (iii) stuck down stone resin shower tray with silicone. I can't do much about (i) and (ii) has been partly resolved.

I don't really want to let him mess around fixing the shower tray issue, but if I can't find anyone else, are there many more things he could screw up during 2nd fix or has most of the damage been done?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

TBH I would say most of the damage has been done second fix is the easy ish part

 

[trf0412]

Ah, right... tough call to make then....

I can live with the OSB, even though it's not what we agreed.
I can live with the fact he made schoolboy errors when cutting out floorboards.
I'm not happy with the holes and notches, but can't do much about it now.
I'm not entirely happy with waste pipes, but they are at least better now and just about acceptable if I can tweak it to give it more of a fall.

But the shower tray issue is causing me to rethink things. What's the point of spending thousands of a new bathroom if there's a real risk of the tray cracking some unspecified time down the line? Replacing that would cost hundreds if not thousands given all the upheaval and retiling that would be required.

I think it's going to be a case of getting someone else in to finish the work or else accepting that the shower tray isn't installed as per the manufacturer's instructions and hoping it never cracks. Asking the current plumber to redo the tray is not an option I'm willing to consider.

 

[FG28]

Ah, right... tough call to make then..

I can live with the OSB, even though it's not what we agreed.
I can live with the fact he made schoolboy errors when cutting out floorboards.
I'm not happy with the holes and notches, but can't do much about it now.
I'm not entirely happy with waste pipes, but they are at least better now and just about acceptable if I can tweak it to give it more of a fall.

But the shower tray issue is causing me to rethink things. What's the point of spending thousands of a new bathroom if there's a real risk of the tray cracking some unspecified time down the line? Replacing that would cost hundreds if not thousands given all the upheaval and retiling that would be required.

I think it's going to be a case of getting someone else in to finish the work or else accepting that the shower tray isn't installed as per the manufacturer's instructions and hoping it never cracks. Asking the current plumber to redo the tray is not an option I'm willing to consider.

He needs sacking
Osb floor , seriously got to be a wind up this Siliconed resin tray , against all mi s which in turn foooks the guarantee which will no doubt come back to haunt you
Did he pva the osb before laying it or did he bosh it straight onto dusty osb
Are the walls aqua paneled or greenmoisture resistant plaster board
I would not be letting it go any further
Imo that tray needs to be redone ,.

 

[FG28]