Nelson Mandela R.I.P

[jefaz]

Some of those 'minor killings'
they weren't government buildings...note the death of an unborn baby!!

 

[rpm]

Noted you started at 1981

 

[jefaz]

Noted you started at 1981

That's when I was born

 

[rpm]

Then I`ve almost got 30yrs on you :bigcry:

 

[lame plumber]

you forget why they did what they did it seems, if the chinese ran this country and whites were treated like the blacks in s africa I for one would act in the same way as Mandella. when you make your comments, you dont seem to realise the reasons and actions were born of desparation.

 

[jefaz]

No I do!!! But why kill innocent people? Why bomb arcades,restaurants and shopping centres?
Why kill innocent people out of desperation?
there should be no excuse for doing that!! Children and unborn children?? Howay man...there isn't an excuse you could even dream up that would make that sound ok to any human being!
there is no way you can phrase it in away that I would find acceptable.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

If they had problems with government why not atack government members them self ? Was not that hard back in the days "they" even took Keneddy down

 

[lame plumber]

you would be best to read into the history in a bit more detail to understand the whys and wherefores, its not as simple as a few bombs as you make out. the bbc politised version currently playing gives a slight insight into the whole picture.

 

[nicro3]

Agree with lame on this one, a great man has passed away and some are trying to belittle his effect on freeing the black majority and giving them the chance to have a say in their destiny. And just for the record heres another historical terrorist George Washington first President of the USA

 

[marvoni]

Quite a thread.

Rest in peace Mr Mandela.

 

[nicro3]

Or is majority rule in South Africa a bad thing and Mandella was wrong?

 

[jefaz]

Or is majority rule in South Africa a bad thing and Mandella was wrong?

It's not a bad thing no and I didn't once say it was. What I did say however was to get to that you carry out murders of innocent children and other non legitimate targets. That's to be commended is it?

 

[Leo21]

Agree with lame on this one, a great man has passed away and some are trying to belittle his effect on freeing the black majority and giving them the chance to have a say in their destiny. And just for the record heres another historical terrorist George Washington first President of the USA

If Jefaz facts are right, shouldn't these things be taken into account. Yes he did great things. But does that cancel out wrong doings, the taking of women and children. I for one, think not.

 

[lame plumber]

problem with all these situations is that it isnt that simple and unless you have lived through it your comprehension of the situation will never be the same as those who were there at the time. Jefaz hasnt been looking at the whole picture from start to finish and Mandelas greatness came through forgiveness and how he managed to get both sides to forgive all that happened without the need for imprisionment of the perpetrators on either side, then move forward and help the s african people

 

[SafeGasInstall]

It ain't helped them much .... They ara all in Leyton east London and not only

 

[clarky101]

So what's did Mandela exactly do... The same as FW de Clerk...the same as Gerry Adams, martin McGuiness, bin Ladin...will they get the same BBC /world news coverage as a man that ruined Simple Minds & the Specials chart careers by being released........

 

[Leo21]

problem with all these situations is that it isnt that simple and unless you have lived through it your comprehension of the situation will never be the same as those who were there at the time. Jefaz hasnt been looking at the whole picture from start to finish and Mandelas greatness came through forgiveness and how he managed to get both sides to forgive all that happened without the need for imprisionment of the perpetrators on either side, then move forward and help the s african people

Sorry but if someone's guilty of harming and killing innocents, there is no redemption or forgiveness.
My opinion, like it or lump it.
Also like to add I don't know the full facts.

 

[lame plumber]

Sorry but if someone's guilty of harming and killing innocents, there is no redemption or forgiveness.
My opinion, like it or lump it.
Also like to add I don't know the full facts.

youd do well in the klu klux clan then

 

[kirkgas]

well best you keep your feelings to yourself at this time then

Why does he have to keep his feelings to himself at this time, a terrorist has died, at least he isn't being hypocritical like the politicians will be, I don't know the full history of the struggle in SA, and I know laterally Mandela was a hero to a lot of people, but like most convicted to life in jail it's easy to change and get released, Winnie Mandela was a complete nutcase and power freak while Nelson was in jail, Google Mandela United football club, and stompie macazie ( probably not spelled correctly) he was 14" abducted and killed by her henchmen at her orders,

 

[kirkgas]

He was also a supporter of the IRA, and was quoted as saying they should not hand in their guns until they got what they wanted, so in effect putting at risk Britons if the fight continued, ok he might have seen the IRA struggle as similar to his, as is his choice, but if that's his opinion then he isn't a man I respect, did he then also condone the treacherous acts they carried out in their name, Gerry Adams and his bunch of henchmen are trying to be all legal now, but their acts won't be forgotten either

 

[SimonG]

All people are good and bad and except for the few, Hyndley, Brady etc, but when somebody dies then everybody tends to remember the good. My view is quite simplistic, I couldn't give a monkeys. It's more for the people who have benefitted or the opposite to pass their opinions. We have merely been witness to what the press want us to see.

 

[Dotty]

Almost 30 years ago on the 20th of May 1983 a bomb exploded in Church Street in Pretoria, planted by the Marxist ANC terrorists, killing 19
innocent civilian people and injuring 217.


The bombs were authorized by Communist scum Oliver Tambo and Joe Slovo and had the blessing of Nelson Mandela himself.


There were applause and cheers of joy and support from all around the world for the ANC.


Sorry but the hypocrisy is sickening.


A small reminder, ANC... just a few of your own "dastardly" and "despicable" work...


1981 - 2 car bombs at Durban showrooms


1983 - Church Street Bomb (killed 19, wounded 217)


1984 - Durban car bomb (killed 5, wounded 27)


1985-1987 - At least 150 land mines on farm roads (killed 125)


1985 - Amanzimtoti shopping centre bomb (killed 5 people, including 3 children)


1986 - Magoo's Bar bomb (killed 3, wounded 69)


1986 - Newcastle Court bomb (wounded 24)


1987 - Johannesburg Court bomb (killed 3, wounded 10)


1987 - Wits command centre car bomb (killed 1, wounded 68)


1988 - Johannesburg video arcade (killed 1 unborn baby, wounded 10)


1988 - Roodepoort bank bomb (killed 4, wounded 18)


1988 - Pretoria Police housing unit, 2 bombs (wounded 3)


1988 - Magistrate's Court bomb (killed 3)


1988 - Benoni Wimpy Bar bomb (killed 1, wounded 56)


1988 - Witbank shopping centre bomb (killed 2, wounded 42)


1988 - Ellis Park Rugby Stadium car bomb (killed 2, wounded 37)


Late 1980s - numerous Wimpy Restaurant bombs (killed many, wounded many)


And people wonder why???????


Just something to think over....


Terrorism at it's most brutal

Mandela was captured, put on trial and imprisoned in 1962. He was assigned as the lowest grade of prisoner. He wasn't permitted newspapers, was allowed one monitored visit every six months and his incoming and outgoing mail was heavily censured until shortly before his release in 1990. He effectively became a 'non-person.'

He was hardly in a position to mastermind acts of terrorism.

Your move batman.

 

[lame plumber]

my point is that you need to see the whole picture of what happened over there not look at individual incidents, no one has mentioned that innocents were shot in the back by the ruling parties police when they had peaceful demonstrations which lead to the events that followed. winnie M is not the one being discussed and a few glib one liners on here are an insult to the man and what he helped achieve for his county and the world in general. Hence why my opinion is that if you dont know at least part of the story you cant make a constructive comment about the whole history of what happened. Listing the actions of one side is an example of how polititians work day to day, theres 2 sides to every story that need to be examined.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Coming off the immediate issues that, tbh are probably a bit emotive to be discussed while the man is still cooling in his box, I came across some fascinating stuff when I was reading up on South African history.

Try a google search on the Mfecane or the Xhosa teenage would be Joan of Arc, Nongqawuse. Or the history of the San people.

Sometimes we think that we Europeans have all the good history stories.

 

[TBServices]

The way I see it, there are many prominent figures throughout history, who have done bad things for the greater good.

Seems to me, that Mandela did things that yes, we can agree are not cool, but at least his motivations were sound, and he wasn't a religious nutter, which is the biggest flaw against any argument trying to compare him to Bin Laden or the IRA.