Nelson Mandela R.I.P

[Leo21]

youd do well in the klu klux clan then

Really? Because I don't condone or forgive the killing of innocents? And again for the record, I don't know if he is guilty of the aforementioned crimes.

 

[Leo21]

Mandela was captured, put on trial and imprisoned in 1962. He was assigned as the lowest grade of prisoner. He wasn't permitted newspapers, was allowed one monitored visit every six months and his incoming and outgoing mail was heavily censured until shortly before his release in 1990. He effectively became a 'non-person.'

He was hardly in a position to mastermind acts of terrorism.

Your move batman.

Just for arguments sake, are you allowed drugs in prison? No, but it still goes on. It's naive to think that he had no influence from his cell.
regrds robin.

again I'm not sure of the facts.

 

[Dotty]

Just for arguments sake, are you allowed drugs in prison? No, but it still goes on. It's naive to think that he had no influence from his cell.
regrds robin.

again I'm not sure of the facts.

You're talking about our prisons where the namby pamby hand wringing apologists have a say.

If they were in SA you think apartheid would've rumbled on for so long?.

Not disputing MK and the ANC committed some terrible, terrible atrocities. How influential Mandela was?

Not very after 1962 I'd say.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Just for arguments sake, are you allowed drugs in prison? No, but it still goes on. It's naive to think that he had no influence from his cell.
regrds robin.

again I'm not sure of the facts.

I think that conditions on Robben Island, at least in the early years, were really very different to HMP Winchester.

From what I understand, his influence from prison would not have been operational. I am not sure that he would have been considered the senior man anyway - I think that Walter Sisulu would have been thought of as the most senior ANC/MK prisoner.

 

[marvoni]

The terrorist acts you're referring to were in the 80's. In the early 60's the MK was still in its infancy, it was concerned with organising public unrest in the form of strikes and protests. They started arming and training themselves as guerrillas before Mandela was incarcerated but their acts were targeted at sabotaging infrastructure such as power stations, refineries and military targets. The bombing campaign you all seem to be referring to was in the 80's when a lot of civilians were killed in a similar style to the IRA bombings in the UK. Once Mandela was jailed he was no longer involved in active service or decision making. I'm not sure if any civilians were killed in the infrastructure attacks he would have been party to but, hey, you can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs.

 

[kirkgas]

The way I see it, there are many prominent figures throughout history, who have done bad things for the greater good.

Seems to me, that Mandela did things that yes, we can agree are not cool, but at least his motivations were sound, and he wasn't a religious nutter, which is the biggest flaw against any argument trying to compare him to Bin Laden or the IRA.

It's a very long time since the IRA struggle was religious

 

[bigman]

People seem to be mentioning sinn fein/pira but are forgetting the loyalist terrorists and agitators such as Paisley who preached oppression and wanted an apartheid in Ulster.The fact is most of the political parties in NI were all linked to paramilitary/terrorists but are now working together to try and have some form of peace just like Mandela/ANC worked with the SA government to rid the country of Apartheid

 

[Best]

People seem to be mentioning sinn fein/pira but are forgetting the loyalist terrorists and agitators such as Paisley who preached oppression and wanted an apartheid in Ulster.The fact is most of the political parties in NI were all linked to paramilitary/terrorists but are now working together to try and have some form of peace just like Mandela/ANC worked with the SA government to rid the country of Apartheid

You have your facts wrong regarding Ulster. That is why we in the UK should be careful to look at S.Africa & Mandela & make judgements.
Firstly, I listened to Paisley for many years & though he was loud mouthed in his speeches & no doubt didn't warm to many Republicans, he did tell the truth, no matter how hard that is to swallow! He didn't want an Apartheid" in Ulster & that is a disgraceful thing to say & is actually what the Republican side really want - take a look at what happened in the Republic of Ireland!
Remember that the Southern Irish government were hostile to the North - long before Paisley was a boy & they funded the IRA.
Fact is IRA Sein Fein were the biggest trouble makers in Ireland & friends of Mandelas. They are now slowly shown to be a bunch of evil people.
The reason why people are linking Gerry Adams & co to Mandela is that people vote for Sein Fein - a party that supported murder. The British people in Northern Ireland do not vote for loyalist terrorists however, - we believe that murdering is wrong.

 

[bigman]

What did Paisley tell the truth about?. The fact is there was oppression of the catholics in Ulster in reference to jobs housing etc there are the well known firms that wouldn't employ across secterian lines. Too many people think all the terrorism in Ulster was down to the ira due to them attacking the mainland. Unfortunaly there are bigots,loudmouths,pyschos and murderers on both sides of the divide, and a result is that we have to put up with known terrorist supporters on both sides in Stormont.Hopefully they will work together to mantain peace

 

[bigman]

I think this particular argument has gone on for a long time before us and will go on after us, but its going off topic for this thread

 

[Dotty]

You can't move forward if you keep digging up history.

 

[Ray Stafford]

You can't move forward if you keep digging up history.

Its a double edged sword.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

You just have to be prepared to see the history from every angle. Including some unpopular ones.

 

[Leo21]

Didn't Confucius say that!

 

[bigman]

I agree with you Ray we need to learn from history sadly some people can't move and sadly for Ulster and other parts of the world some scum don't want rest of society to move on and live peaceful happy lives

 

[Ray Stafford]

Didn't Confucius say that!

George Santayana

 

[Best]

What did Paisley tell the truth about?. The fact is there was oppression of the catholics in Ulster in reference to jobs housing etc there are the well known firms that wouldn't employ across secterian lines. Too many people think all the terrorism in Ulster was down to the ira due to them attacking the mainland. Unfortunaly there are bigots,loudmouths,pyschos and murderers on both sides of the divide, and a result is that we have to put up with known terrorist supporters on both sides in Stormont.Hopefully they will work together to mantain peace

On your question about "what did Paisley tell the truth about", - obviously you think he told lies?
If so, then I put this question to you - what was not the truth that he said?
From the 60s he told us the truth of the evils of the Irish government & indeed the British government & controversially, the evil within the Roman Catholic Church at that time. Now the truth bit by bit is coming out thankfully & Paisleys true words on both governments, the RC church & the false news fed to & by the media is very apparent.
As to terrorist supporters in Stormont, I think they are Sinn Fein IRA only as the vast majority of British voters here rightly don't vote for terrorists.
When you mention discrimination in employment or otherwise, you should be more fair & also mention the discrimination that Protestants or any British person was subjected by Catholics both in the North & the South of Ireland. Failure to do so actually makes a lie of the complete history of relations & discriminates against any British people in Ireland.
Sorry this is off the thread, but is relevant to what we all read & believe about in other parts of the world, things are not always black & white & Mandela & the ANC is one example.

 

[Dotty]

Its a double edged sword.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

You just have to be prepared to see the history from every angle. Including some unpopular ones.

I phrased it wrong. Every Easter here one community upsets the other by celebrating and parading the Easter Uprising of 1919. Then come July the other community causes upset by celebrating and parading the Battle of the Boyne.

While both them events are remembered the way they are it'll be a long, long time before there's true and real peace here.

 

[bigman]

Best I did actually mean what subjects you was refering to not calling a Paisley a liar, I also meant that firms did not employ because of secteranism on both sides of the divide, I admit i didn't like Paisley senior or his bigoted son the same as I dont like bigots of any religion,colour or race.Thankfully the truth has come out on alot of the issues you mentioned I am glad that I left Ulster when I was young enough to get all the religous/nationalist/loyalist brainwashing out of my head. As I said before we are going very off topic to the opening post

 

[village idiot]

I have walked that long road to freedom.
I have tried not to falter.
I have made missteps along the way, but I have discovered the secret that: after climbing a great hill, one finds that there are many more hills to climb.
I have taken a moment here to rest, to steal a view of the glorious vista that surrounds me, to look back on the distance I have come. But I can only rest for a moment, for with freedom comes responsibilities, and I dare not linger, for my long walk is not ended.

HAVE A DESERVED REST GREAT MAN. You deserve the rest now.
RIP NELSON Mandela

 

[julesverne]

i thought this was an interesting article

BBC News - Nelson Mandela death: His mixed relationship with Britain

 

[Centralheatking]

Anyway - One Sunday afternoon a long time ago I was sat in ft of my fire waiting for
'Going for a Song - or Antiques Roadshow' and the bbc changed the whole schedule
cause Mr. Mandela had been released from prison - I was a bit grumpy at the time
about this but he has proved himself to be an absolute icon and we should all always
remember him -

I like the idea of the 'Global Nelson Mandela Day' everybody everywhere
stops to think........CHK

 

[PlumbersMate]

youd do well in the klu klux clan then

Disgraceful comment! Did wonder how long before someone uses that one because they disagree with someone's opinion!

 

[marvoni]

Maybe Godwins Law applies to the KKK as well as the Nazis in which case it was only a matter of time.

 

[lame plumber]

Disgraceful comment! Did wonder how long before someone uses that one because they disagree with someone's opinion!

as he stated you can all have an opinion on here, good or bad, if you read the background to my comment and saw what had been previously said, you may have understood my comment. to explain, the poster had stated he knew nothing about the facts but was still willing to offer a comment, hence my answer!!. not exactly disgraceful really

 

[WHPES]

Mandela did admit that like anyone else he has made mistakes, but after his incarceration he proved to be a person with great humanity and integrity.