Position of boiler flue in relation to velux window, advice pleas

[Rob Foster]

I have seen similar issues before. Normally sticking a flue out over an adjoining property is fine. However things move on and I have seen people who want to extend make their neighbours remove the offending outlet as it technically is an infringement on their property. This falls into this category and might be deemed unsafe regarding the new velux. Plainly the flue was right but no longer. I am a sensible householder and would never want to gas my neighbour, however if my neighbour approached me ...I would offer to share the costs if a vertical flue arrangement...then we all sleep soundly ...AND wake up. Thats the important bit centralheatking

 

[quality]

A bit of cooperation goes a long way

 

[Debra Beagle]

I have seen similar issues before. Normally sticking a flue out over an adjoining property is fine. However things move on and I have seen people who want to extend make their neighbours remove the offending outlet as it technically is an infringement on their property. This falls into this category and might be deemed unsafe regarding the new velux. Plainly the flue was right but no longer. I am a sensible householder and would never want to gas my neighbour, however if my neighbour approached me ...I would offer to share the costs if a vertical flue arrangement...then we all sleep soundly ...AND wake up. Thats the important bit centralheatking

Hi Rob, I think your misunderstanding the siting of the flue as it does not stick out over the neighbours property, it’s sticks out over our conservatory on our property.........

 

[Rob Foster]

ok, now I see, the rear of your property wraps around the side of the neighbouring home with the velux. Your neighbours retro fitted an opening and ventilating velux type roof window AFTER your boiler and fan assisted flue were installed.
There is concern that under certain circumstances, wind etc and the 'throw' of the fan the exhaust gas might enter what might be a bedroom in your neighbours property where someone might be asleep. It would be reasonable to expect their work came under building regulations and they would have proof of this. The resonsibility lies firmly with your neighbour AND the local authority building control. However right you may be it is still a concern for all three parties...building regs .or not ..arrange an urgent visit from building control and advise your neighbour to firmly close the velux and close the vent option permenantly until the position is ratified. let us know how you get on. Rob Foster
centralheatking

 

[Debra Beagle]

ok, now I see, the rear of your property wraps around the side of the neighbouring home with the velux. Your neighbours retro fitted an opening and ventilating velux type roof window AFTER your boiler and fan assisted flue were installed.
There is concern that under certain circumstances, wind etc and the 'throw' of the fan the exhaust gas might enter what might be a bedroom in your neighbours property where someone might be asleep. It would be reasonable to expect their work came under building regulations and they would have proof of this. The resonsibility lies firmly with your neighbour AND the local authority building control. However right you may be it is still a concern for all three parties...building regs .or not ..arrange an urgent visit from building control and advise your neighbour to firmly close the velux and close the vent option permenantly until the position is ratified. let us know how you get on. Rob Foster
centralheatking

Rob, we have contacted local building control but they have informed us due to the builder using a private building inspector they are not allowed to get involved. We have spoken to the building inspector on the job who apparently was reassured by the builder that not a problem because our flue was closer to our bedroom window! We did speak to him again and showed him a diagram from building regs planning portal,which has been posted on this thread, concerning distance between velux and flue but due to the fact that on the diagram it was a vertical flue and not horizontal one he said it didn’t apply. We did also point out the definition of a flue and it was unimportant wether horizontal or vertical.
The neighbours are aware of the situation but we believe again they have been reassured by the builder that there is not a problem.
We are also aware that it is being decorated at present for use as a bedroom.
This build has been done on a building notice were building can be carried out without submission of full plans ( very interesting as this means it is up to the builder and homeowner to abide by regs if they are aware of them!) like I say , the use of a private inspector has the local council unable to get involved.
We are at a loss.

 

[hammers4spanner]

We have enlightened the neighbours with our concerns but after initially being concerned they have been reassured by their builder that their window is correct and it is our flue that is wrong.

Haha typical builder response as we all know here builders are all knowing about flues ffs

 

[hammers4spanner]

Take the builder to court soon hear the reverse beeps of the builders comments.
My inlaws neighbour had an extension done where they built the extension the flue terminates in the gutter .
Totally acceptable according to the builder lol

 

[oz-plumber]

All you can do is send the neighbours a letter, with the flue clearances diagram included.
Stipulate all your concerns and await a reply in writing.

Demand them to get something in writing from themselves, the builder and the private building inspector.

This may make the builder and inspector take some notice.

Other than that there is not much you can do, unless you want to pay out of your pocket for the flue to be rectified for your peace of mind.

As difficult as it may seem, just cover your concerns so that you will be deemed to have raised your concerns with the neighbour.

 

[Riley]

I’m very surprised that Gas Safe won’t investigate. I often find its who you talk to that depends what sort of response you get

 

[Rob Foster]

Rob, we have contacted local building control but they have informed us due to the builder using a private building inspector they are not allowed to get involved. We have spoken to the building inspector on the job who apparently was reassured by the builder that not a problem because our flue was closer to our bedroom window! We did speak to him again and showed him a diagram from building regs planning portal,which has been posted on this thread, concerning distance between velux and flue but due to the fact that on the diagram it was a vertical flue and not horizontal one he said it didn’t apply. We did also point out the definition of a flue and it was unimportant wether horizontal or vertical.
The neighbours are aware of the situation but we believe again they have been reassured by the builder that there is not a problem.
We are also aware that it is being decorated at present for use as a bedroom.
This build has been done on a building notice were building can be carried out without submission of full plans ( very interesting as this means it is up to the builder and homeowner to abide by regs if they are aware of them!) like I say , the use of a private inspector has the local council unable to get involved.
We are at a loss.

Your next step is really quite simple now. Cover your arse !
Go to a local simple solicitor get the practice to draft a simple letter of information regarding the situation and clearly stipulate that all regulations and relevant authorities are aware of the situation and your property is in the clear. The actions of your neighbour and their agents might have placed them in a dangerous situation.
Your solicitor will advise about the method of service to ensure
you have proof of their reciept and the local building authorities etc and then. RELAX..if you want a hand drafting this letter I am happy to help as will others on here, you have been left in an invidious position.
Rob Foster ...aka centralheatking

 

[Chuck]

The actions of your neighbour and their agents might have placed them in a dangerous situation.

Or, the neighbour might have simply been exercising their lawful rights to enjoy their own property without being poisoned by fumes that the OP is producing and allowing to cross the boundary. Just because Gas/Building Regs were complied with at one point in the past does not mean that there are no other legal issues.

IMO, the best advice in this thread so far has been post #15, i.e. spend £500 to get a vertical flue installed through the roof. My bet is that's all a solicitor will tell the OP to do in any case.

One thing I do know about the law of property is that it is very complicated and getting reliable advice is going to be expensive. If the OP can fix the problem permanently for less than £5k then they should do so because that's still going to be cheaper than the alternatives. A Gas Safe Installer charges ca £40 an hour, a solicitor will charge £200 an hour to ask the opinion of a barrister who charges £400 hour!

 

[Rob Foster]

Or, the neighbour might have simply been exercising their lawful rights to enjoy their own property without being poisoned by fumes that the OP is producing and allowing to cross the boundary. Just because Gas/Building Regs were complied with at one point in the past does not mean that there are no other legal issues.

IMO, the best advice in this thread so far has been post #15, i.e. spend £500 to get a vertical flue installed through the roof. My bet is that's all a solicitor will tell the OP to do in any case.

One thing I do know about the law of property is that it is very complicated and getting reliable advice is going to be expensive. If the OP can fix the problem permanently for less than £5k then they should do so because that's still going to be cheaper than the alternatives. A Gas Safe Installer charges ca £40 an hour, a solicitor will charge £200 an hour to ask the opinion of a barrister who charges £400 hour!

a decent solicitor/barrister outfit costs £35o
per hour ...I paid that last Friday...and was happy because they got a result centralheatking

 

[Debra Beagle]

Or, the neighbour might have simply been exercising their lawful rights to enjoy their own property without being poisoned by fumes that the OP is producing and allowing to cross the boundary. Just because Gas/Building Regs were complied with at one point in the past does not mean that there are no other legal issues.

IMO, the best advice in this thread so far has been post #15, i.e. spend £500 to get a vertical flue installed through the roof. My bet is that's all a solicitor will tell the OP to do in any case.

One thing I do know about the law of property is that it is very complicated and getting reliable advice is going to be expensive. If the OP can fix the problem permanently for less than £5k then they should do so because that's still going to be cheaper than the alternatives. A Gas Safe Installer charges ca £40 an hour, a solicitor will charge £200 an hour to ask the opinion of a barrister who charges £400 hour!

Chuck, nobody is denying them to exercise their rights to enjoy their own property, as long as they stick to building and gas regs that both have the same opinion about the distance from a flue to velux window.
The flue still complies to regs now, it is their positioning of the velux window that does not. As gas safe has said ‘ whichever was there first has the right to be there’.
What is the point to these regulations if people to not take notice.

 

[Murdoch]

OP I note you didn’t comment on my post #31

I suggest you find a local party wall surveyor and see what they say ......

 

[Rob Foster]

OP I note you didn’t comment on my post #31

I suggest you find a local party wall surveyor and see what they say ..

Jeff Howell...is a very experienced party wall surveyor
he used to do the Sunday Telegraph column and operates in London and the home counties. centralheatking

 

[Chuck]

What is the point to these regulations if people to not take notice.

You seem to be trying to persuade yourself that your neighbour, who neither owns nor benefits from your boiler or flue is the person responsible for ensuring your property complies with the Gas Safety Regulations.

I disagree. You own the boiler and you own the flue. In my opinion, that makes it your problem to ensure that the installation complies with Gas Safety Regulations and to ensure that your fumes don't cause harm or nusiance to your neighbours.

Anyway, you're not going to get the answer you want here so you need to ask a solicitor. Come back and let us know what they advise so we can all learn.

 

[Chuck]

a decent solicitor/barrister outfit costs £35o
per hour ...I paid that last Friday...and was happy because they got a result centralheatking

I assume that they got you off with a caution then?

 

[Debra Beagle]

You seem to be trying to persuade yourself that your neighbour, who neither owns nor benefits from your boiler or flue is the person responsible for ensuring your property complies with the Gas Safety Regulations.

I disagree. You own the boiler and you own the flue. In my opinion, that makes it your problem to ensure that the installation complies with Gas Safety Regulations and to ensure that your fumes don't cause harm or nusiance to your neighbours.

Anyway, you're not going to get the answer you want here so you need to ask a solicitor. Come back and let us know what they advise so we can all learn.

With respect , our boiler and flue does comply to regulations, as I keep saying ,gas safe have told us that whatever was there first has the right to be there. Thanks for everyone s input......hopefully we will find an answer somewhere.

 

[Riley]

You see I also disagree and don’t think your flue is your neighbours responsibility. If there had been communication and agreement put in place then maybe. However now the thing is built, short of getting gas safe out, which they will, not sure why you’ve been told otherwise. I don’t personally think you’ll get many gas safe companies being too committal as it’s adhoc. Go back to gas safe and stress the issue

 

[Scott_D]

Think how many terraced houses have the boiler in the back bedroom the same as this.
If every neighbour built a rear extension with a window next to the flue they would all have to be changed??

 

[Rob Foster]

Think how many terraced houses have the boiler in the back bedroom the same as this.
If every neighbour built a rear extension with a window next to the flue they would all have to be changed??

each one on its merits, there was an unfortunate one years ago with a fan flue venting into an alleyway which then killed a kid in his ground floor bebroom
via a window way beyond regulation distance
centralheatking

 

[Rob Foster]

You see I also disagree and don’t think your flue is your neighbours responsibility. If there had been communication and agreement put in place then maybe. However now the thing is built, short of getting gas safe out, which they will, not sure why you’ve been told otherwise. I don’t personally think you’ll get many gas safe companies being too committal as it’s adhoc. Go back to gas safe and stress the issue

I would be inclined to check that the occupation of the roof bedroom is lawfull, whatever the ....builder says...well he would wouldnt he
centralheatking

 

[Riley]

Call GAS SAFE

 

[CHRISX]

Think how many terraced houses have the boiler in the back bedroom the same as this.
If every neighbour built a rear extension with a window next to the flue they would all have to be changed??

Hello scott_d / Debra Beagle,

I am not trying to argue that Gas Safety / the safety of the OP`s neighbours is not the most important factor in cases such as this but I agree with Scott`s point.

When a Gas Boiler is installed correctly regarding the location of the Flue / where the Flue / Products of Combustion are not being discharged over a Neighbours boundary which seems to be the case in this example and the Neighbour then has a Window installed where none existed previously and the new window then falls within an area where the products of combustion could possibly be blown to enter the window it is the installation of the WINDOW that has caused the possibly dangerous situation NOT the Gas Boiler.

Although I don`t doubt that the Householder / Builder / Roofer who fitted the Velux Window did not even think about the Boiler Flue let alone have the knowledge to know that they were doing anything wrong by fitting it - the theory related to `Gas Safety` situations such as this from the HSE / Building Regulations suggest that they should have at least looked at the adjacent area for the presence of anything that could affect a new Velux Window - but especially an adjacent Gas Appliance / Flue.

As Scott-d described there will be Boilers installed all over the UK where the Flue currently discharges towards [but NOT over] a Neighbours boundary - if an Extension to the property was then built it would have to be designed to ensure that a Window was NOT located opposite the neighbouring Boiler Flue because although the Flue Gasses were previously not discharging over the boundary a new window immediately adjacent to the boundary could have some Products of Combustion blown into it depending on Wind conditions and become a Gas Safety issue.

How many times in the past have we read about seen photos of a Conservatory where it has been built leaving a Boiler Flue discharging into the Conservatory space - the Conservatory / Window Company should have known that was a serious Gas Safety problem - but in those publicised / photographed cases they obviously did not.

Obviously the Safety of the people living in the property where the Velux window has been fitted is paramount BUT it should NOT mean that Member Debra Beagle / the OP should have to either pay to move her Boiler or have expensive alterations [if possible] carried out on the Boiler Flue.

Although this is a very awkward situation I feel that the Neighbour should either remove / move the Velux window or be prepared to pay the OP for any works agreed regarding either moving the Boiler of altering the Flue.

I know that getting either of those `Fixes` agreed to is very unlikely but I would agree with other Members that the last thing the OP should do is have to go to Court about this because the main `winners` would be the Lawyers regarding the possible costs of legal action.

Chris

 

[Rob Foster]

This is a massive subject and I really feel for the op, and we all
on UKPF have given plenty of really well informed advice. We
really do not know the answer .
Hopefully the OP will lets us know how it all ends up.
centralheatking...its been one of the most challenging posts
in my memory on UKPF ...chking