should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for money?

[Reg Man]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

Reulations are only effective if the relevant bodies enforce them. Unfortunately this does not happen enough. We need consumer bodies in between to follow up on complaints. The HSE, Trading standards and envoiromental health have not got the resource to follow up everything that goes wrong. Qualifications for a tradesman are not enough, because all to often, some of these qualified people ignor what they know and do a bad job.

 

[ToolGuy]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

From a tradesman's point of view, yes require lots of certificates. From a customers view, no, just have a way to prove good quality of tidy work at reasonable price. So maybe have a website which lists all plumbers and all jobs done by them with customer comments so a new potential customer can make an informed choice.


Every craft, profession, is in the same situation. Photographers have very high costs, training yet everyone thinks they can take a photo. Writers learn their craft but are undercut by others writing. University lecturers may have done 12 years of training yet earn less than a plumber.


No, more legislation and restrictions isn't the way. Educate the customer to want a good job and show then that you can do that good job by word of mouth referrals. Some people simply won't be able to afford an expensive qualified person (plumber, electrician, gas fitter, window installer) so should they be forced to go without?

 

[coradia]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

Being a Gas safe registered Heating Engineer and seeing how expensive it is to be gas safe registered and hard we are policed. To bring in a seperate body to monitor plumbers would be a nightmare, what about the guy who can turn his hand to anything like a Handyman and earns a living doing odd jobs and can quite easily plumb a washing machine in or change a tap, would that mean that even if he did 3 or 4 "plumbing jobs" a year he would need a license? end result is really creating another body and making up jobs that the plumbers pay for and i think it is enough that i should pay for my gas safe without then paying for the plumbing aspect. End result is that we charge more and the consumer funds yet another government department i can see Corgi now rubbing their hands waiting in the wings.

 

[tamz]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

I like the Australia setup thing. It sounds easily enough run to me. Those who do their work right have nothing to fear.

Regulation would not stop DIY work.
I don't know anything about it, but i bet in Australia there is still lots of DIY work done.

When i started working in the 70's, we had water officers going around the district checking things and issuing notices as they had done for years before. Never seen one for maybe 20 years now and i honestly don't know if there is such a position any more. Such is progress.

What i do know is there needs to be some form of regulation here. As Reg man said. Bad plumbing is not killing anyone (well not directly) so nothing will be done!

 

[markfxy]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

the government is already doing something similar with renewables although its not law to be MCS registered the customer won't be able to claim rhi without the installer and the equipment being MCS registered when the rhi comes into force next april it will be a closed shop unless your'e registered. I think it's a good idea but it would be to difficult and epensive to police plumbing installations.

 

[Bernie2]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

I agree with Tamz, in the 60's water inspectors where everywhere, most where old tradesman, in point I think they all where and you could not kid them. If the job was crap they told you so.

The thing is they where usually paid for by the local council but with council cut backs they no longer as far as I know exist, so no quality control checks are carried out on anything anymore, its all customer beware and no real quality check for the customers.

I looked at a boiler for someone the other day as it was loosing pressure. My ACS and registration having run out now being retired, I could only look and advise, not touch.

Anyway it was a 10 year old Glow Worm with a loose front none combustion chamber cover on it. I took it off refilled the system and spotted the leak right away. It was on the pump hose, the jubilee clip had dug into the hose to the point it was nearly right through.

So they called the maintenance company out, who came on three separate occasions to try and stop the leak, they never, instead they recommended a new boiler.

The renewal of the hose and parts should have come to about £12 for the hose and whatever labour charges but possible an hour and a half's work I would say about £60 worth of work, instead the customer is now facing a £2,500 bill and knowing no better they have said yes.

Its this kind of what appears aggressive selling I don't like in the game and why we need somebody to over see this quality side, at the moment its all "If you don't like it, go elsewhere, plenty who will pay"

 

[fuzzy]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

not sure how registration would stop that happening, possibly make it worse!

 

[marsaday]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

If plumbing is to be regulated in this way, then what about brikies, joiners, window fitters, the list goes on.

Heating engineers and sparkies i can see why they need more regulation. But regulation just forces up costs and we dont need that. it would be good if you are a plumber, but not the general public. plus you will still get crap plumbers doing crap work.

 

[Tong]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

I think what is being forgotten is the contribution to public health good plumbing actually makes.. and the fact that bad plumbing can kill people as evidenced in Hong Kong during the SARS outbreak along with legionella etc. etc. I am not so naieve as to believe that regulation and control can prevent that entirely but the danger from bad plumbing can be just as present as that from bad gas work. The problem is it's not so apparent and who's to say that the sore throats and less serious viruses are not potentialy spread by bad sanitation and contaminated water supply.

 

[shaunhighcock]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

Im not qualified but i always do an excellent job never had an unhappy customer, I'm not a plumber for the money but because I enjoy it so i think that makes a big difference!!

 

[tamz]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

The work may look the part and the customer be pleased but how do you know you are doing it correctly, using the correct materials (because you can buy it don't mean you can legally fit it) and fitting to standard?
If you have never been trained or no one has ever checked it you won't know and your customers know even less.

 

[Reg Man]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

Pleased you have satisfied customers, but like Tamz says. Do you understand all of the regulations? Do you know the reqirements and have they been applied.

 

[coradia]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

haha what makes one qualified in plumbing? would that be the 4 or 5 years apprenticeship and the years gained working or would that be the quick route to qualifications with 5 day courses?

 

[fuzzy]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

haha what makes one qualified in plumbing? would that be the 4 or 5 years apprenticeship and the years gained working or would that be the quick route to qualifications with 5 day courses?

the recognised qualification for plumbers NVQ2 minimum for basic or NVQ3 for adavnced, simple

 

[plumbster3456]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

the recognised qualification for plumbers NVQ2 minimum for basic or NVQ3 for adavnced, simple

yes and along with the 4 or 5 years apprenticeship without this if it has only taken you for instance to do either above in 6 weeks not qualified even with certificates.
you must be jib registered to be industry recognised as qualified.
Try getting a job with even the full nvq or svq without experience NO CHANCE.

 

[fuzzy]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

yes and along with the 4 or 5 years apprenticeship without this if it has only taken you for instance to do either above in 6 weeks not qualified even with certificates.
you must be jib registered to be industry recognised as qualified.
Try getting a job with even the full nvq or svq without experience NO CHANCE.

you cannot get an NVQ without experience??????? are you getting mixed up with a tech cert?

 

[plumbster3456]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

you cannot get an NVQ without experience??????? are you getting mixed up with a tech cert?

SORRY FUZZY ONLY MENTIONED BECAUSE SOMEONE WAS TALKING ABOUT 5 DAYS COURSES TO GET QUALIFIED ( THINK IT WAS CORADIA) surely to god this cant be true.
I know not everyone does 4 and 5 years but at least it has taken some a year or two.
If you did phone up the jib and ask they would say only recognised is the ones who have done apprenticeships may not be 100% the right way but it is there way

 

[shorticus]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

the uk government only licence those things that are deemed as dangerous or a risk to the insurance companies, note, not deemed as a risk to people or property per se, but the claim against ‘them’ that might follow an occurrence. Driving a car, driving a lorry, installing gas blah blah blah are the things that the insurance companies get wobbly knee’s about, if plumbing goes wrong you get wet, you don't drown, ergo no major fiscal loss, ergo no licence needed. Wrong!? I absolutely agree, however I'm just commentating.

 

[that bloke.]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

you can do a lot of damage to someones property if you take on something that you dont know how to follow through.
i think you either need to be qualified or experienced through on the job training to do general plumbing , or both.
i think a qualification is just something to prove you are accually learning with on the job training, plumbing shouldnt solely be taught at college. on the job will tell you how to do things , college will tell you why they are done that way.

 

[fuzzy]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

you can do a lot of damage to someones property if you take on something that you dont know how to follow through.
i think you either need to be qualified or experienced through on the job training to do general plumbing , or both.
i think a qualification is just something to prove you are accually learning with on the job training, plumbing shouldnt solely be taught at college. on the job will tell you how to do things , college will tell you why they are done that way.

you cannot get the qualification solely from college, as i keep putting, so why not recognise the nvq as competence? no need for addition hoops to jump through

 

[that bloke.]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

i thought the nvq can be recognition of competence? although we could keep running round in circles and say some people with an nvq shouldn't be let loose in a customers house and some people without any qualifications could in fact be very competent.
perhaps plumbing jobs shoulod be spot and randomly inspected by a main body of inspectors and if the work is not up to scratch or doesnt comply with current regs then they should have the ability to dish out some kind of punishment.
in fairness people who work with gas or unvented should have a ticket but general plumbing? if you can do it and do it properly , have a knowledge of the regs required and the correct insurance etc then i see no need for an nvq. you could argue that people who work with food should have a ticket to prove they know how to wash their hands every time they use the toilet, does that gardener have a licence for that ride on mower or that spade? where do you draw the line? can you provide your customers with a crb check to make sure your not really a mugger disguised as a plumber?

 

[smudger]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

I definitely think that a tradesperson should be properly qualified (and assessed) to carry out work. Do you think it would work if all tradespeople (not just plumbers) had to be a member of an approved scheme? I actually think it is too easy to get the qualifications and they are currently no proof of competance, but that's a different issue.

 

[Hybrid]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

The NVQ 2 can't be a measure of competence because it only requires proof of very basic plumbing skills. There's no mandatory requirement to prove competence on heating systems, installation of cylinders, installation of storage tanks etc.
If you install a couple of bathrooms, change a couple of soil stacks and do some basic plumbing maintenance you have all the evidence needed to complete the portfolio.

The NVQ 3 is mostly concerned with the planning of works and customer service with two small tasks involving commissioning a heating and hot water system.

There's a huge gap in what's required to become qualified and what's required to do the job.


EDIT: sorry smudger, just read your post which says everything I was trying to say.

 

[fuzzy]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

The NVQ 2 can't be a measure of competence because it only requires proof of very basic plumbing skills. There's no mandatory requirement to prove competence on heating systems, installation of cylinders, installation of storage tanks etc.
If you install a couple of bathrooms, change a couple of soil stacks and do some basic plumbing maintenance you have all the evidence needed to complete the portfolio.

The NVQ 3 is mostly concerned with the planning of works and customer service with two small tasks involving commissioning a heating and hot water system.

There's a huge gap in what's required to become qualified and what's required to do the job.


EDIT: sorry smudger, just read your post which says everything I was trying to say.

if you think this than you say the qualificaton isnt fit for purpose. if a full qual doesnt satisfy you then why would a small card and registration? even if an inspector checked the odd job?

 

[shorticus]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

I'm old school so please forgive my ignorance on this one, how long does an nvq 2 or 3 take to aquire, are they day release, block release or intensive training schemes?